Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

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williatw
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Location: Ohio

Post by williatw »

How do we know an "Assault weapon" ban would not have stopped Adam Lanza? Because it didn't.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/17/how-d ... on-ban-wou

The rifle he used, a .223-caliber Bushmaster M4 carbine, was legal under Connecticut's "assault weapon" ban, which is similar to the federal law that expired in 2004. Both laws, in addition to listing specifically prohibited models, cover semiautomatic rifles that accept detachable magazines and have at least two out of five features: 1) a folding or telescoping stock, 2) a pistol grip, 3) a bayonet mount, 4) a grenade launcher, and 5) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor. The configuration of the rifle used by Lanza, which his mother legally purchased and possessed in Connecticut, evidently was not covered by that definition.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

One should also note the constitution does not single out guns. the Second Amendment states, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms". That can be any weapon.

A State mandates disarming its people for one reason only, and that is to ensure fear and control of the govenrement by the people. Power cannot be challenged if the masses are subject to uncontested violence at the hands of the government. If you are unsure, ask the Arabs what they think for current context.

Another interesting point is that some of the places wiht the highest crime and violence are also the places with some of the tightest "gun control". Like Chicago, NYC, DC...

I fully believe we are wrong to immortalize these nutcases by broadcasting their names and personal history over mass media. They should never become household names. The victims need to known, the nutcase needs to be dismissed as such. A pointless act by a complete wack-job. Spit on its grave.

We are also equally wrong in denying the basic right of self defense in the name of gun control. Assholes will get guns no matter what the law says. But they will mostly only use them when they are certain the will not be contested.
Violent crime has been on a down trend for years, the arming of mom/pop small store owners, and the willigness to engage would be criminals has been on the uptrend. Coincidence? Maybe not.

Criminal Tenant All Time Number One: "Prey on the weak and defenseless"

You want to have school shootings stop. Allow staff and faculty to arm themselves if they wish (screen, train & cert them if you wish, just like the FAA). Add locked access (already done in most places) and an armed security guard (as some schools already have). Why do you think most shopping malls now have an armed police patrol?

If I was carrying and confronted with an asshole, I would take him out or die trying. We should no longer tolerate these idiots, and we should certainly not make it a "gun control" argument. if anything, it implies further right to self protection from morons.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

Well too, he didn't use the rifle. I thought he left it in the car. He had a pair of handguns.

Lets face it, if he had wanted to kill every person in that school, there were certainly ways to do it. I hate to say it but we'll see more of this just as we see it in China. We'll see more attacks in subways. We've seen them for decades on busses in the middle-east. People bent on evil are going to do evil. We can only hope to restrain them just so much.

IMHO, we need to look at the data thus far form the law passed in TX a couple years ago that allows teachers to carry concealed. That would form a huge deterrent in the future for crazies looking to target small children.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

choff
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Post by choff »

The problem comes when an armed teacher goes completely off her rocker and decides to punish the whole class. My own grade one teacher exhibited signs of Tardive Diskensia, wouldn't have put it past her on some days, and with the union protecting them they're not so easily removed from vulnerable children.
CHoff

williatw
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Post by williatw »

choff wrote:The problem comes when an armed teacher goes completely off her rocker and decides to punish the whole class. My own grade one teacher exhibited signs of Tardive Diskensia, wouldn't have put it past her on some days, and with the union protecting them they're not so easily removed from vulnerable children.
And the current law that disarms all the teachers at every school in the US including the ones with concealed carry permits? Sure that would protect the kids from the "off her rocker" teacher same as the current law protected those poor kids in Conn.

http://www.cslib.org/constitutionalAmen ... tution.htm

SEC. 15. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

To bad those nitwits in the Conn. gov (as well as the national ones resposible for the "gun free zones") don't read their own state constitution.

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

choff wrote:The problem comes when an armed teacher goes completely off her rocker and decides to punish the whole class.
I have no problem with raising the bar for what it takes to get a concealed carry permit. In most states it already requires a background check for psychiatric problems. Making the process include a mandatory MMPI or some such is not a bad notion so far as I'm concerned.

Remember that not every teacher needs to carry. For deterrence, there mere threat that any teacher might be carrying is enough, just as the threat that any customer in a bank could be carrying deters armed robbery in banks.

And just saying, both my 6th grade social studies teacher and my 7th grade biology teacher had Tardive Diskensia. there is nothing about that condition that would make a person a risk for carrying a weapon, any more than it would Katharine Hepburn.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

paperburn1
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Post by paperburn1 »

I have several friends as teachers and they all generally have the same opinion and one worth listening to I feel. They want/prefer a uniformed guard to be present. If a active shooter is present then the police/ first responders have no idea if the person present is an active shooter or a teachers protecting their students. With a uniformed armed guard that problem is removed. Most schools are large now and not everyone knows everyone anymore.

GIThruster
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Post by GIThruster »

That makes sense except for the cash involved. There are about 100,000 public schools in the country. If you paid for just 1 guard at each, that would be in the billions of dollars each year, and you still aren't protecting the kids while on the busses, the private schools, etc.

Local police often put in time in public schools as part of their beat. That's really up to the municipality. I have to admit though, I am not surprised at all that the local teachers think spending billions of dollars is the answer. I have yet to meet a public school teacher with a fiscally responsible attitude. They all love to spend other people's money.

How about a compromise? Have the local PD park a car in front of the school each day and remove it at the end of the day so that it appears there is an officer there. Wouldn't that provide the same deterrent without spending the money?
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by choff »

GIThruster wrote:
choff wrote:The problem comes when an armed teacher goes completely off her rocker and decides to punish the whole class.
I have no problem with raising the bar for what it takes to get a concealed carry permit. In most states it already requires a background check for psychiatric problems. Making the process include a mandatory MMPI or some such is not a bad notion so far as I'm concerned.

Remember that not every teacher needs to carry. For deterrence, there mere threat that any teacher might be carrying is enough, just as the threat that any customer in a bank could be carrying deters armed robbery in banks.

And just saying, both my 6th grade social studies teacher and my 7th grade biology teacher had Tardive Diskensia. there is nothing about that condition that would make a person a risk for carrying a weapon, any more than it would Katharine Hepburn.
It's not an illness, just a side effect, in my teachers case probably of serious mental problems or legal/illegal substance abuse. I agree that training and arming a few school staff members is probably the best option available, after thourough evalution of the candidates. Not the ideal situation, only the best of a bad situation.
CHoff

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

choff wrote:Not the ideal situation, only the best of a bad situation.
Well isn't that human life in general? You start off in a bad situation. For most - things get better for a while. Then you end in a bad situation.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Stubby
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Post by Stubby »

Taking away guns is not the way to go

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012 ... chool.html

mental health is the issue
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

There ought to be a law against stupidity. The mother's.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

choff
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Post by choff »

I saw some mention the shooter destroyed his computers hard drives, he must have had some kind of online profile.
CHoff

hanelyp
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Post by hanelyp »

If I deliberately destroy a hard drive, you're getting nothing off it. If Joe Psyco tries to destroy a hard drive, results aren't so certain.

Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes »

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

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