Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

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Diogenes
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:
Diogenes wrote:More like a Devonian extinction. What use do the elite have for us breeders when machines will eventually be able to serve them better?
Would the "immortal" elites really be ready to risk the wrath of the "breeders" if their plan to exterminate us fails? They literally have everything to lose (their quasi-immortal) lives if we win and nothing really much practical to gain by wiping us all out.

Rationality is not a necessity in these sorts of deliberations, and that is assuming your premises are even correct. The worshipers of Gaia are filled with religious zeal, and arguments of risk vs. benefit will very likely have no effect.


Prosperous Humanity seem predisposed to debauchery for it's own sake. We see this again and again through history in examples of individuals, and examples of larger social groups as well. For all we know, they might find killing the rest of us to be "fun".





williatw wrote:
Easier to follow a slow patient plan of giving immortality to the breeders over time and watching their fecundity fade away, just as it is now among those groups with the longest life expectancy. Like the demographic collapse happening in Europe now.
We see that happening, but would any of us have predicted it? Japan too. Something strange is happening all across the world. It seems that Societies, like flowers, bloom and die.

I am reminded of what Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said. "Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened. "

williatw wrote: An "immortal" doesn't need to take big risks like that, easier to get what they want on the slow plan; after all they have the time. And again is it really worth killing 150,000 people a day just to supposedly make sure they don't? And even if "immortality" is never invented, the Gaia worshiping ruling "elites" you speak of could try to wipe us out with their drone/robotic/cyborg military (or some kind of germ like the movie the 12 monkeys) anyway.

Yup. That's halfway around what I was thinking when I started the "Skynet is coming" thread. It doesn't have to make sense. A lot of human behavior throughout history doesn't.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by Diogenes »

Ah, Libertarians. :)
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by Diogenes »

Betruger wrote: I reckon these challenges are to us as building the USA was to the FF and whoever tried and failed before them. The difference would be that we'd have time on our side.

It's not like no one state or sufficiently rich individual will ever try and eventually succeed. If it's unavoidable, then we should get ready and ideally make the best of it, rather than cling to old "proven" status quos. Until we actually try, we won't know for sure.


Engineering a better man. How Nietzschean.


I do think bioengineering is a better approach than the Soviet method.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-9-3/

I imagine insect-like nano-bots (which might have appeared as locusts to John the Divine in his vision) could do a very good job of tormenting people and making them wish for death; a death which might not be forthcoming in our hypothetical technology produced "immortal" world; who says the Gaia worshippers want us to die (at least not right away)? Maybe they want to punish us first and for allot longer than five months for our "sins" against mother earth?

Betruger
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by Betruger »

Diogenes wrote:
Betruger wrote: I reckon these challenges are to us as building the USA was to the FF and whoever tried and failed before them. The difference would be that we'd have time on our side.

It's not like no one state or sufficiently rich individual will ever try and eventually succeed. If it's unavoidable, then we should get ready and ideally make the best of it, rather than cling to old "proven" status quos. Until we actually try, we won't know for sure.


Engineering a better man. How Nietzschean.


I do think bioengineering is a better approach than the Soviet method.
Nietzche or not, it is the freedom to choose. The freedom to have time to find oneself, instead of being crushed under the political steamroller of material scarcity and the rube goldberg clap trap that society has built around the false pretense that people must die so soon.

The freedom to engineer themselves or to reach the peaceful acceptance of their mortality. The freedom to choose, IN THEIR OWN TIME.

Human existence under the current state, under the bondage of society, is a caricature of what it ultimately must be even if only to become something else afterwards. Curing aging is a means to that end. It reveals many of the artifices, of the hitherto "meanings" of life for what they are, under the influence of the pro-aging trance, and it forces people to face their true selves in the greater cosmic context. Some will understand it and others won't.
There is no obligation, only opportunity.

It's an imperative for all the right humane reasons and denying it for the sake of status quo is like that saying - living to eat instead of eating to live.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

williatw
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by williatw »

Betruger wrote: Nietzche or not, it is the freedom to choose. The freedom to have time to find oneself, instead of being crushed under the political steamroller of material scarcity and the rube goldberg clap trap that society has built around the false pretense that people must die so soon. The freedom to engineer themselves or to reach the peaceful acceptance of their mortality. The freedom to choose, IN THEIR OWN TIME.

Very essence of conservatism seems to be a deep seated fear of change; status quo 150K dying a day is "reassuring" in that it (death) is the way it has always been and deep seated fear/suspicion of what would happen if it (death) ever left us.
Betruger wrote:Human existence under the current state, under the bondage of society, is a caricature of what it ultimately must be even if only to become something else afterwards. Curing aging is a means to that end. It reveals many of the artifices, of the hitherto "meanings" of life for what they are, under the influence of the pro-aging trance, and it forces people to face their true selves in the greater cosmic context. Some will understand it and others won't. There is no obligation, only opportunity. It's an imperative for all the right humane reasons and denying it for the sake of status quo is like that saying - living to eat instead of eating to live.
And it is not just curing aging and/or delaying death; as I have stated, given the ability to repair/replace will come the inevitable "upgrades" both physical and mental. Initially just to further reduce death rates improve health beyond reversing/preventing aging, but at some point the improvements will be for their own sake. One must wonder if that process of upgrading continues apiece, will what is left at some point even be human any longer; at least in terms of how most of us would define the term for whatever that is worth. Must confess to ambivalent feelings about that idea.
Last edited by williatw on Fri May 20, 2016 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

williatw
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote: Something strange is happening all across the world. It seems that Societies, like flowers, bloom and die.

Well maybe just maybe we could delay/blunt the effects of this "collapse" in the birth rate by causing a gradual collapse of the death rate. If their were just 1 billion or less people in the world before the falling death rate meets/balances the falling birth rate think we could live with that. 500 million to a billion people say instead of 7 billion. Maybe even a booming economy fueled not only by technological innovation but by people inheriting wealth/land etc. from multiple relatives who died childless. Like what happened in the generations after the Black Death in the 14th century; understand that (inheritance) caused an increase in wealth and the mortality sparked a labor shortage which aided the peasant class. Also allot more wide open spaces, forests, jungles, etc; nature lovers would love that. Given natural selection eventually you find that the "breeders", those who chose to have kids, would eventually out number those who don't; even with aging cured death reduced people would still eventually die. Given the situation in Japan they better hope some kind of life extension is developed and quick. They (the Japanese) don't like "Gaijin" (foreigners) on their soil; so unlike Europe they likely won't be able to bring in large numbers of immigrants, so people will likely have to work longer than they want. On the other hand the Japanese love robotics/automation far more than we do; maybe they will use that to replace their retiring workers and maybe even supply them personal services like in home housekeeping & medical care. I understand that there are studies of young Japanese that indicate a significant percentage of young women ( and men) are actually repulsed at the idea of physical intimacy (sex); very strange if true. I wonder if what's happening in Japan on some level could be a subconscious reaction to the idea that 127 million people on an island with ~18K square miles less land than California is just too many people? Imagine how crowded California would be if ~ 40% of our population moved there, & subtracting that much land too.
Last edited by williatw on Sat May 21, 2016 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

paperburn1
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by paperburn1 »

I understand that there are studies of young Japanese that indicate a significant percentage of young women ( and men) are actually repulsed at the idea of physical intimacy (sex); very strange if true.
Not in my experience, :shock: but that was a few years ago.
edit
Make that 30 years ago f#@k i am old.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

williatw
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by williatw »

paperburn1 wrote:Not in my experience, :shock: but that was a few years ago.

Make that 30 years ago f#@k i am old.
Japan's under-40s appear to be losing interest in conventional relationships. Millions aren't even dating, and increasing numbers can't be bothered with sex. For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth rates. Its population of 126 million, which has been shrinking for the past decade, is projected to plunge a further one-third by 2060. Aoyama believes the country is experiencing "a flight from human intimacy" – and it's partly the government's fault.
Is Japan providing a glimpse of all our futures? Many of the shifts there are occurring in other advanced nations, too. Across urban Asia, Europe and America, people are marrying later or not at all, birth rates are falling, single-occupant households are on the rise and, in countries where economic recession is worst, young people are living at home. But demographer Nicholas Eberstadt argues that a distinctive set of factors is accelerating these trends in Japan. These factors include the lack of a religious authority that ordains marriage and family, the country's precarious earthquake-prone ecology that engenders feelings of futility, and the high cost of living and raising children.

"Gradually but relentlessly, Japan is evolving into a type of society whose contours and workings have only been contemplated in science fiction," Eberstadt wrote last year. With a vast army of older people and an ever-dwindling younger generation, Japan may become a "pioneer people" where individuals who never marry exist in significant numbers, he said.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... having-sex

Betruger
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by Betruger »

Korean, not Japanese, but ...

Semi NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NaaBhIwGRI
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

williatw
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by williatw »

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5544&hilit=Bill+andrews

Bill Andrews on Singularity 1 on 1: Ageing is not going to cure itself!


More from Bill Andrews:

BioViva FIJI - First Clinic to Treat Aging
.

Aging Reversed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmI0DjE ... e=youtu.be

Published on May 18, 2016


Full Video: https://goo.gl/QT82Mk

Dr. Bill Andrews, leading scientist in the field of life extension, a pioneer in telomeres research, and Sierra Sciences CEO, presents in People Unlimited's Spring Celebration 2016, held in Scottsdale, AZ.

People Unlimited provides an ongoing program of support, insight and inspiration to empower you to more fully experience and manifest your true unlimited potential.

Directed by James Strole and Bernadeane, People Unlimited fosters a mecca on radical life extension and physical immortality for all those seeking to live an inspired, nourishing, ever-expanding life free of the limitations of the mortality paradigm.

*Learn more about Dr. Bill Andrews and Sierra Sciences: http://www.sierrasci.com/
*Learn more about People Unlimited: https://www.peopleunlimitedinc.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/agingreversed

Recap: He says his company Sierra Sciences is apparently merging with another company BioViva. That he estimates in about a year they will be ready to actually start testing their Telomere rebuilding therapy on humans in the facility they intend to build in the Fiji Islands. Said therapy according to the video has already reversed aging extended lives successfully in mice.

kurt9
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by kurt9 »

I told my wife about this last night. I have my doubts about telomere shortening being the cause of aging (I think its mostly mitochondrial DNA damage and a few other things - essentially the SENS hypothesis). However, I read Dr. Fossel's book, which argues rather persuasively that telomere shortening is the cause of aging. We'll know in another year or two.

In which case, it looks like my wife and I will be taking our summer holiday in Fiji either next year or in summer of 2018.

kurt9
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by kurt9 »

Something else you need to know. Bioviva is essentially a "garage-level" effort, sort of like the two Steves in 1977. All of Bioviva's gene therapies were developed for a measly $250K and her home is listed as the business address. I and my contacts in Asia could come up with $250K if our lives depended on it. If I had an idea for repairing mitochondrial DNA that is not already being worked on (they already are), my friends and I would do it ourselves.

The significance of this is that bio-engineering and by implication, radical life extension, is a "garage-level" DIY activity. This, of course, renders political "debate" about the "ethics" of life extension irrelevant. If small groups of people (like me and my Asian contacts) can develop life extension on our own, why the f**k do we need to "debate" it with anyone? We just do it.

My slogan iss: I don't have to convince you of anything. I just have to do it.

TDPerk
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by TDPerk »

@ Kurt9

Thing is, politically you need to have enough people on board with what you are doing that no one forcibly takes a blood sample and then jails you for unauthorized gene-hacking.
Diogenes wrote:Ah, Libertarians. :)
Because some people have a problem with liberty.
molon labe
montani semper liberi
para fides paternae patria

kurt9
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Re: Factor X have we finally found the fountain of Youth?

Post by kurt9 »

No, we don't need other people to be politically on-board with our individual choices on this. If anyone attempts to make it illegal for individuals to change their own genetic makeup, we'll use the courts instead. We'll just sue their asses on the basis that any such ban is a blatant violation of our 1st amendment rights and get an injunction against such a law until we prevail in court. The recent cases upholding the right to same sex marriage and transgender rights is sufficient case law to support our case.

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