Ron Paul Supporters not welcome in Louisiana GOP

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MSimon
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Ron Paul Supporters not welcome in Louisiana GOP

Postby MSimon » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:38 pm

Moments later, Herford, too, was seized by police. Camera-wielding Paul supporters surrounded the fracas as Herford pleaded with officers to be gentle due to his prosthetic hip. “I have a handicap! I’m handicapped!” he said as they pulled him to the ground.

Herford said later, after he was treated for dislocating his prosthetic hip, “It felt like somebody had kicked me, brought me down. They said I was resisting arrest, but they never said I was under arrest. I didn’t leave when they told me to leave, but I never was told to leave… I have a room here in this hotel and I’m on the state central committee. I don’t know how I could be in an improper place.”

John Tate, Ron Paul’s national campaign manager, said, “Mr. Herford has a prosthetic hip and according to a doctor at the scene it appears as though the prosthetic was dislocated and may require replacement. The injury occurred as he was beginning to call to order the newly re-formed convention.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/04/l ... -arrested/


The Paul supporters are a passionate lot. This will not help the GOP win the national election as the Paul supporters represent about 10% to 15% of the Republican Party.

BTW the above was sent to me by one of my left leaning friends. I'm sure they will be doing all they can to separate the RP vote from the Republicans. Maybe we will see a Gary Johnson surge in November - unless some one from the national party steps in to mend the fences - quickly.
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Re: Ron Paul Supporters not welcome in Louisiana GOP

Postby williatw » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:23 am

MSimon wrote:
Moments later, Herford, too, was seized by police. Camera-wielding Paul supporters surrounded the fracas as Herford pleaded with officers to be gentle due to his prosthetic hip. “I have a handicap! I’m handicapped!” he said as they pulled him to the ground.

Herford said later, after he was treated for dislocating his prosthetic hip, “It felt like somebody had kicked me, brought me down. They said I was resisting arrest, but they never said I was under arrest. I didn’t leave when they told me to leave, but I never was told to leave… I have a room here in this hotel and I’m on the state central committee. I don’t know how I could be in an improper place.”

John Tate, Ron Paul’s national campaign manager, said, “Mr. Herford has a prosthetic hip and according to a doctor at the scene it appears as though the prosthetic was dislocated and may require replacement. The injury occurred as he was beginning to call to order the newly re-formed convention.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/04/l ... -arrested/


The Paul supporters are a passionate lot. This will not help the GOP win the national election as the Paul supporters represent about 10% to 15% of the Republican Party.

BTW the above was sent to me by one of my left leaning friends. I'm sure they will be doing all they can to separate the RP vote from the Republicans. Maybe we will see a Gary Johnson surge in November - unless some one from the national party steps in to mend the fences - quickly.

Well if Obama wins in the fall...hope the repubs take the senate and hold on to the house, probably the best scenario at this point. People who hate each other's guts can sometimes work well together. The tea party would pressure the repubs in congress to submit massive spending cuts in the budget, and I am betting if they get such a budget to Obama's desk he would sign it. Sure he would love to go out his 2nd term as the "balanced budget" president like Clinton.

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Postby palladin9479 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:40 am

Well if Obama wins in the fall...hope the repubs take the senate and hold on to the house, probably the best scenario at this point. People who hate each other's guts can sometimes work well together. The tea party would pressure the repubs in congress to submit massive spending cuts in the budget, and I am betting if they get such a budget to Obama's desk he would sign it. Sure he would love to go out his 2nd term as the "balanced budget" president like Clinton.


All things set aside, the GOP party right now is not the GoP party that most of you guys love. They've become an extremest organization filled with people who hold ideology over practicality. To make it worse, their leadership has zero intention of actually holding to Conservative ideals, it's just talking points to them. It got so bad that Olympia Snow resigned her senate seat, something that was a guaranteed win for her. Then afterword instead of acknowledging her accomplishments as a moderate conservative, GoP supporters lambasted her.

And while democrats are .... democrats *feels urge to clean out mouth*, at least their actually trying to compromise. The conservative and liberal ideologies are not compatible with each other, you must compromise somewhere in between to make progress. Strictly keeping to ones own ideology and refusing to budge isn't how government works.

It's a sad sad day when I feel I have to side with liberals, and I can't stand liberals. Obama is going to win guys, not because of anything special on his part, but because the GoP has painted itself as this extremely conservative religious organization. Moderate independents, aka swing voters, want nothing to do with that group of people.

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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:31 am

palladin9479 wrote:It's a sad sad day when I feel I have to side with liberals, and I can't stand liberals. Obama is going to win guys, not because of anything special on his part, but because the GoP has painted itself as this extremely conservative religious organization. Moderate independents, aka swing voters, want nothing to do with that group of people.


The Democrats are just as extreme - just about different things.

Otherwise I totally agree. (well maybe not about Obama winning - economics usually drives elections)

I wrote a bit about the future of the Republican Party yesterday:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/06/a-rally-report/

The "conservatives" hate libertarians. Not all of them mind. Maybe about half. Enough so I'm giving Gary Johnson serious consideration. I live in Illinois so I have a "free" vote.
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Postby palladin9479 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:58 am

I'm speaking from the POV of a moderate independent with libertarian leanings. Basically the guy that each candidate has to convince is the best choice for the job of PoTUS. Liberals will always vote for liberals, conservatives will always vote for conservatives, so it's the swing voters who decide elections.

The GoP primary's didn't happen in a dark room filled with only conservatives, we all watched them. Each candidate was trying to prove he was more conservative the the other, they said things they can't take back. The only one in the GoP I would remotely consider would of been Ron Paul.

The Dems have their own social agenda, usually anti-nuke / anti-corporate amongst them. What we can always count on is the dems will spend more time fighting each other then they will fighting conservatives. It's always been a fractured party that's full of people thinking they know how to save the world better then everyone else. Republicans on the other hand can get organized in frightening ways, especially when banking regulations and money is involved. They've become a group of people entirely bent on doing things their way, and if the world burns then so be it.

Basically the Dem's tolerate moderation and compromise, current Republicans don't. That means a lot to moderates, we don't like voting for people who vilify us.

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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:43 pm

we don't like voting for people who vilify us.


I'll second that.
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Postby kcdodd » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:22 pm

MSimon wrote:
we don't like voting for people who vilify us.


I'll second that.


third
Carter

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Postby Diogenes » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:29 pm

I want all of you people to vote for Obama. The only way we are going to fix this problem is to make it so bad that even you guys can see what is wrong with this direction.

Unfortunately, you will have to have the same lesson administered on the Drug issue as well. It will have to become bad enough to open your eyes.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

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Postby Diogenes » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:54 pm

Oh, and by the way, I just ran across this yesterday at Ace of Spades.


"If America was a car, our "Check President" light would be on. "




:)
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:57 pm

I have a Free vote:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/06/romn ... alization/

Romney couldn't have picked a more scummy bunch to represent his position on prohibition.

And D, the usual thing during an election season is to COURT the people whose votes you want. I guess Republicans are too smart for that.

And if you go back to the HufPo article I link to you will see that keeping Prohibition going is all about keeping the money flowing. No different than the Democrats. The latest stats are something like 67% say prohibition isn't working and 11% who say it is. The first party to capitalize on that is going to have 20 years of winning elections ahead of them. Because fear of government is going to be embedded in all those the government has been going after for 40 years. You can see it in the slow rise of anti-prohibition sentiment. Like a pig passing through a python.

We have two parties with one governing principle - "we are going to use government guns to make you do things our way". It is working. The Drug War is the best durn recruiting tool the libertarians have.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/06/a-rally-report/

And you know - unlike the pied piper we have a soft spot in our hearts for the halt and the lame. I never could figure how the Republicans thought they could have a future by attacking the youth for doing something less harmful than drinking alcohol. Or attacking vets who use pot for PTSD. Attacking wounded vets - a real winner on the right. Or going after people wit MS whose only relief is pot. And a myriad of others.

But not to worry. The harms of tobacco have been so impressed on the youth that pot is now more prevalent than tobacco among the youth.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162- ... dc-survey/

And here is a good one:

Science News

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 164453.htm

A Swiss study suggests that teens who use only cannabis appear to function better than those who also use tobacco, and are more socially driven and have no more psychosocial problems than those who abstain from both substances, according to a new report.
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Postby ladajo » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:31 pm

So the next study will show that teens are having a resurgence of lung cancer caused by increased levels of smoking due to a perception that pot is safe to smoke...
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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:48 pm

Diogenes wrote:I want all of you people to vote for Obama. The only way we are going to fix this problem is to make it so bad that even you guys can see what is wrong with this direction.

Unfortunately, you will have to have the same lesson administered on the Drug issue as well. It will have to become bad enough to open your eyes.


Yep. I'm sure people will see the dangers of the most harmful drug currently available to our society. Alcohol. I expect a return to Alcohol Prohibition. Real soon now.

And yeah heroin is real bad. Nobody should be using that stuff.

Post-traumatic stress disorder among people with heroin dependence in the Australian treatment outcome study (ATOS): prevalence and correlates

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1604002315

This study documents the prevalence and correlates of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) among Australian individuals with heroin dependence. Data was obtained from a cohort of 615 people dependent on heroin, 535 entering treatment for their heroin dependence and 80 individuals not in treatment. Trauma exposure (92%) and lifetime PTSD (41%) were highly prevalent. PTSD was prevalent across all treatment modalities, most commonly residential rehabilitation (52%) followed by maintenance therapies (42%), and detoxification (37%). The lowest prevalence was reported among those not in treatment (30%). Although men and women were equally likely to have experienced trauma (93% vs. 89%), women were more likely to develop lifetime PTSD (61% vs. 37%). For the large majority of those with PTSD, the condition was chronic (84%), with symptoms continuing for an average of 9.5 years. Those with PTSD had more extensive polydrug use histories, poorer general physical and mental health, and more extensive health service utilisation. It is concluded that PTSD is highly prevalent among individuals with heroin dependence, presenting a significant challenge to treatment providers.


In one of my blog posts on heroin use, a treatment guy chimed in and said in his experience 100% of the women he knew with a heroin habit had been sexually assaulted in their youth.

If you really gave a rats arz about drug use you would be doing what I do. Make efforts to lower the prevalence of child abuse (and resultant PTSD) in society. That would reduce drug use (and alcoholism too) by about 30% to 40%. Well maybe not that much. There would still be first responders (EMTs) and soldiers.

Your attitude seems to be "punish the afflicted". The cohort that works with is dying off. And you know even my mother (92) changed her attitude about drug prohibition about 15 or 20 years ago. They put one of our NJ relatives away for 10 or 15 years. The whole family changed its mind (those who hadn't already) about prohibition after that.

Every Prohibition "victory" sows the seeds of prohibition's defeat.

And suppose we wind up no worse than Portugal where drug use is about the same as it was during prohibition (maybe a little higher - I'd have to look) but crime has been reduced considerably. Then what? Will we have learned the lesson you hoped we would learn?

Here is one on Portugal from Time Magazine :

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html


Dang. Drug use declined. Sorry about that. Maybe in the next country that tries the policy it will work as you hope. BTW the Dutch do have a problem with Drug Tourism (dang Germans). But the same decline in drug use by their youth was also noted there.

Evidently "here, have all you can afford" works better than "forbidden fruit" to keep kids off drugs. Maybe the world doesn't work the way you think it does - in first world nations anyway.
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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:27 pm

ladajo wrote:So the next study will show that teens are having a resurgence of lung cancer caused by increased levels of smoking due to a perception that pot is safe to smoke...


Uh. Pot only smokers have a lower incidence of lung cancer. Pot has anti-tumor properties.

Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 193338.htm

The active ingredient in marijuana cuts tumor growth in common lung cancer in half and significantly reduces the ability of the cancer to spread, say researchers at Harvard University who tested the chemical in both lab and mouse studies.


And then you have to ask "where are the bodies?" Why aren't lung cancer wards full (well a significant number anyway) of pot smokers?

Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01729.html

The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer.

The new findings "were against our expectations," said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.


What I'd like to know is where does all this misinformation come from? You wouldn't say something about physics without knowing or looking it up. But when it comes to drugs no such due diligence is applied. Why?

Further research has shown that people with a disposition to resort to cannabis use are more likely to live longer and healthier lives than users of other "social drugs" such as alcohol.

Morgan, John Jacob Brooke; Zimmer, Lynn Etta (1997). Marijuana myths, marijuana facts: a review of the scientific evidence. New York: Lindesmith Center. pp. 32–7. ISBN 978-0-9641568-4-5.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_drug_theory


So what do we know? Pot smokers live longer and if we can get people to switch to pot from alcohol it lowers traffic fatalities significantly (about 9% according to studies).

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/w ... ic-deaths/

As I keep saying, if we are going to make a drug illegal (stupid idea) it should be alcohol.

====

It seems drugs make people lose rationality and reason. Especially among those that don't use them. Why is that?

I guess faith sometimes works wonders and at other times it makes people stupid. It is why I prefer reason to faith. Despite being a believer (well not in any religion you would recognize).

===

So let me sumarise: prohibition (of pot - we have no data on other drugs that I am aware of) increases traffic fatalities and keeps people from a life extending drug. Is that useful? Wise? A waste of resources?

Prohibition also increases drug use by youth. Is that a desired effect?

Oh. Yeah. It finances criminals. Is that what you wanted?

It destabilizes transit countries and puts the cartels in control. Is that what you had in mind?

Rationally prohibition produces nothing but negative effects counter to the official desired results. And yet people love it. Maybe it is just human nature to be stupid on such matters.

Prohibition is an awful flop.
We like it.
It can't stop what it's meant to stop.
We like it.
It's left a trail of graft and slime,
It won't prohibit worth a dime,
It's filled our land with vice and crime.
Nevertheless, we're for it.

Franklin P. Adams, 1931
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ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:49 pm

I really like pushing your button. :)

Nice recycle of study.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:07 pm

ladajo wrote:I really like pushing your button. :)

Nice recycle of study.


I like getting my button pushed. It gives me a chance to expound or rant - depending.
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