Ron Paul Supporters not welcome in Louisiana GOP

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TDPerk
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Post by TDPerk »

Tell us then WizWom--in the appropriate thread, please--how the controls for such effects have been inadequate.

Your mere assertion does not suffice.

And it would be good of you not to raise objections which have already been addressed.
molon labe
montani semper liberi
para fides paternae patria

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

From an outsider perspective it is amusing how both sides throw similar accusations at each other, just pointing to different issues.
I always found it amusing to see people demonize and demagogue others while believing themselves to be above reproach. That kind of mental rigidness breeds cognitive dissonance with the result being a bunch of fanatical believers, even amongst the more intelligent portion of society.

Perception is reality, if someone want to see something they will. Facts will be bent, misinterpreted and twisted to support the preconceived beliefs that formed the perception. Facts will be made to support the theory rather then the other way around.
Last edited by palladin9479 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Teahive wrote:
Diogenes wrote:Compromise is okay with things of no great import, but not with fundamental principles. Republicans have been compromising, and the Liberal ratchet effect has been going on for many decades now, and each year the demand for more compromise is just splitting the previous year's difference. The net effect is we keep moving left year after year after year.
From an outsider perspective it is amusing how both sides throw similar accusations at each other, just pointing to different issues.
We have two authoritarian parties in America, Democrats and Christian Democrats. That explains most of what you see.

Libertarians used to be a force in American politics from 1776 (earlier actually) until about 1900. Around that time (and even more later) the Progressives split into two Parties giving us what we have today. Democrats and Christian Democrats (Republicans).

The so called "smaller government" mantra of the Republicans is a vestige of an earlier era. Authoritarians have no use for smaller government and it shows.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

Simon,

Yet you still vote for them .... interesting.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

palladin9479 wrote:Simon,

Yet you still vote for them .... interesting.
They have one saving grace for this engineer. They can run the numbers. And they win elections. Since I live in Illinois - unless the polls are close - odds are (today) I will vote for Gary Johnson.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

MSimon wrote:
palladin9479 wrote:Simon,

Yet you still vote for them .... interesting.
They have one saving grace for this engineer. They can run the numbers. And they win elections. Since I live in Illinois - unless the polls are close - odds are (today) I will vote for Gary Johnson.
I take local elections the same way I take national ones, case by case basis. I voted for Snow and Collins last time, though I can't stand the current GoP party, those two have always seemed level headed and looking for a common sense solution. Much to the chagrin of their party leaders. Now that Snow's retired I'm worried on who the GoP will attempt to appoint to run for her seat.

Be careful that your not voting out of some false sense of party allegiance, they rely on that to push their agenda. After all how would you feel if it was your senator that prevented your state from legalizing cannabis?

Would you vote for Obama if he ran on a platform of making cannabis a states rights issue and had it de-listed as a schedule I substance?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Would you vote for Obama if he ran on a platform of making cannabis a states rights issue and had it de-listed as a schedule I substance?
I don't think so. But I would definitely give him a favorable mention on the blog.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

MSimon wrote:
Would you vote for Obama if he ran on a platform of making cannabis a states rights issue and had it de-listed as a schedule I substance?
I don't think so. But I would definitely give him a favorable mention on the blog.
I'm not a party man. But I definitely favor the Republican economic program. Otherwise I detest the Christian Democrat (Republican) Party. I'm working to make the libertarian wing of the R party stronger. A friend of mine is burrowing from within.

Since we have two authoritarian parties and he libs who are not Republicans don't win elections I choose based on local conditions.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

I don't want to sound harsh, but what economic plan?

Last I read it was just "cut unspecified amounts from unspecified programs, and cut tax's on company's and those making 1+ mil.

I hate liberals with a passion, but at least their trying to do something, as bumbling as their efforts are. The most I see the Republicans doing is whole sale obstructionism, even to their own ideas. That offends my sense of national pride, how could anyone claiming to be loyal to the US refuse to work towards making useful national laws / policy's. Every one of their idea's (none have been serious) involved dismantling all democrat supported programs, those plans were only done to be used as election material, no attempt at compromise was made.

Our founding fathers were not of the same political mentality, they agreed on a system of compromise to be the best way to run a country. Yet the recent GOP party has violated this basic foundation of our government. Mind as well throw out the entire constitution and elect themselves for life.

I also deeply disagree with demagoging and demonizing anything for political gain. It reeks of emotional manipulation, which is the central mechanism for mind control. If I can control your emotions then I can control you. You talk about slavery towards a government that taxes, yet your neglecting the more insidious slavery to those who manipulate your emotions. Of those two the second is worse, at least you can learn to hate the first, the second your forced to love.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

palladin9479 wrote:I don't want to sound harsh, but what economic plan?

Last I read it was just "cut unspecified amounts from unspecified programs, and cut tax's on company's and those making 1+ mil.

I hate liberals with a passion, but at least their trying to do something, as bumbling as their efforts are. The most I see the Republicans doing is whole sale obstructionism, even to their own ideas. That offends my sense of national pride, how could anyone claiming to be loyal to the US refuse to work towards making useful national laws / policy's. Every one of their idea's (none have been serious) involved dismantling all democrat supported programs, those plans were only done to be used as election material, no attempt at compromise was made.

Our founding fathers were not of the same political mentality, they agreed on a system of compromise to be the best way to run a country. Yet the recent GOP party has violated this basic foundation of our government. Mind as well throw out the entire constitution and elect themselves for life.

I also deeply disagree with demagoging and demonizing anything for political gain. It reeks of emotional manipulation, which is the central mechanism for mind control. If I can control your emotions then I can control you. You talk about slavery towards a government that taxes, yet your neglecting the more insidious slavery to those who manipulate your emotions. Of those two the second is worse, at least you can learn to hate the first, the second your forced to love.
Demagoging ?

You believe in rational politics? You are a fool. Well meaning but a fool.

===

I have very rational reasons for calling the Republicans "Christian Democrats" they are the remnant of the Christian wing of the Progressives. They have taken over what was in 1900 a libertarian party.

And of course we have the secular remnant of the Progressives - The Democrats. Copperheads.

We have in effect a one party state with two factions - both authoritarian. Just ask Diogenes about that (at least he claims that for the Republicans).

===

We don't need a government doing something. We need a government doing less. The Republicans have the Ryan Plan. Not very good but the alternative is the Democrats who have no plan.

===

Ah. Yes. Compromise. I favor it:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/what ... ompromise/

===

BTW could you explain where I have been emotionally duped? I'd love to hear that.

===

The Democrats and Republicans have both thrown out the Constitution. I'm picking my poison. You may not care for my reasons. But I do have one or two.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

hanelyp
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Post by hanelyp »

palladin9479 wrote:I don't want to sound harsh, but what economic plan?
You'll be lucky to hear it so long as you stick with the major media and left wing sources. The conservative economic plan is based on property rights and freedom for each man to keep the fruits of his labors, lifting himself up. As opposed to the leftist plan of demonizing the "winners", taking from the producers to give to the parasites.

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

hanelyp wrote:
palladin9479 wrote:I don't want to sound harsh, but what economic plan?
You'll be lucky to hear it so long as you stick with the major media and left wing sources. The conservative economic plan is based on property rights and freedom for each man to keep the fruits of his labors, lifting himself up. As opposed to the leftist plan of demonizing the "winners", taking from the producers to give to the parasites.
Umm .. I'm not liberal .... or did you miss that.

I stick to internet news from multiple sources, strange the UK reports seem to be the most level headed. The dem's have a faulty plan that involves cutting back and closing tax loopholes established during the Bush presidency. They've actually laid it out (being a democratic executive they kinda have to). The GOP has done nothing but say "we're going to stop the spending but we don't raise any taxes", when asked exactly what their going to cut ... they haven't actually said it, only mentioned "welfare programs for freeloaders".

Earlier I said out the US financial situation, outlays are too high and income is too low. You can't cut your way out of that, and both parties know this. Romney won't say exactly what he's planning on cutting due to whatever he says, it'll piss off some voters and he stands to lose support. Thus instead he'll just keep waiving a hand. He wouldn't decide any of that anyway, he'll be told what his budget will be and what he's allowed to propose to be cut. Just like the congressmen(women) will be told what to vote for.

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

BTW could you explain where I have been emotionally duped? I'd love to hear that.
By systematically supporting people who's agendas are not in your best interests. By all accounts you are on welfare / unemployment / non-working status. You are not a wealthy man. This means the majority of the republican party doesn't care about you and demonizes you. You have become their declared enemy and are the individuals they seek to punish for the lower profits of their leaders.

And yet you support them. No sane individual in their right mind would support someone looking to destroy them. Thus I can only conclude that you've rearranged your perspective to enforce the reality that those you support will actually do good by you.

You claim to support the constitution and original government of the USA, yet you refuse compromise and back the "my way or the highway" stance of the GOP that has sabotaged our government. You would gladly inflict hurt your fellow American and your country for political ideology.

One tends to only see that sort of fanaticism in those of the ultra-religious persuasion. Simon, has your political beliefs become your religion?

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Post by MSimon »

palladin9479 wrote:
BTW could you explain where I have been emotionally duped? I'd love to hear that.
By systematically supporting people who's agendas are not in your best interests. By all accounts you are on welfare / unemployment / non-working status. You are not a wealthy man. This means the majority of the republican party doesn't care about you and demonizes you. You have become their declared enemy and are the individuals they seek to punish for the lower profits of their leaders.

And yet you support them. No sane individual in their right mind would support someone looking to destroy them. Thus I can only conclude that you've rearranged your perspective to enforce the reality that those you support will actually do good by you.

You claim to support the constitution and original government of the USA, yet you refuse compromise and back the "my way or the highway" stance of the GOP that has sabotaged our government. You would gladly inflict hurt your fellow American and your country for political ideology.

One tends to only see that sort of fanaticism in those of the ultra-religious persuasion. Simon, has your political beliefs become your religion?
I believe in practical politics not utopian politics. I do have my ideals but then I say - who closest to what I want is likely to get elected.

Having said that let me tell you I know Communism from the inside. Straight up thieves. It is going to be very difficult to get me to vote for one of them. I might but it is not very likely.

I was a Libertarian. But they lost me post 9/11. You get smacked you smack back. You don't wring your hands and say what did we do wrong? Why don't you like us? Outlaw rules.

I do think the Christian Democrats understand economics better than the Democrats.

So where does that leave me? I intend to wise up my allies. And I'm making some progress. But these things are slow affairs. To be effective the criticism has to come from inside their world view.

This comment to one of my posts explains my view very well.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/chri ... ment-65820

My religion is my politics and at the same time is beyond any politics. I'm with the "leave us alone" people. I want the power so I can use it to do nothing. And odd thing to do with power to be sure.

BTW Communism is a product of PTSD which I'm very familiar with. When my PTSD was raging Communism made sense. Now that it is at least somewhat under control it doesn't. I did a post on that too.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/02/the-ptsd-party/

We could cure a lot of the ills of current politics if the problem of PTSD was properly dealt with. But if you haven't had it it is impossible to imagine. And what I write is not for those who already "know" all the answers. It is for those who are still at a stage when they can learn.

I'm on Social Security. Which as welfare goes is at least somewhat honorable. But I don't expect it to last. Which is why at age 68 I'm starting over. And making some headway too.

If I thought compromising with the Communists was a good idea I'd be doing it. It is not a good idea. It is a very bad idea. Been there, done that. Got the T-shirt.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/what ... ompromise/

And pray - what kind of person would I be if I supported something that was good for me but that I thought was bad for the country? What interest should I support? Mine or my children's?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

palladin9479
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Post by palladin9479 »

Umm .... where the hell did communism come into play? This isn't the 70's and 80's anymore, using the invented specter of an invisible enemy doesn't work when everyone has access to the internet. Great plan to scare up the 50+ crowd to vote for you, ends up backfiring amongst the 20~30 age bracket.

Funny you mention that ... the GOP is far more like the original Maoists / Stalinists then the dems. The dems spend too much time fighting against each other to actually arrange some sort of dictatorship / authoritarian government. The republicans on the other hand are extremely well organized, they rarely fight each other. Any agenda pushed by the unelected GOP leadership will be voted on and passed by all GOP members. It is within reason to believe that should the GOP gain majority in all branches of government, they could convert the USA into an authoritarian regime. This won't happen though, too many liberals fighting tooth and nail.

The liberals do want a nanny state, the "new conservatives" want an authoritarian oligarchy. Honestly between those two I'd take the nanny state, at least you can climb the social ladder. The oligarchy just enforces a caste system based on birth. Born poor are kept poor, middle class is removed, and born privileged is kept privileged.

Don't believe me, look at Mississippi, one of the most if not the most conservative state in the union. Then look at California / New York. Obviously CA / NY got issues, but compared to MS their practically paradises. Look again at Utah where the LDS church runs the state, closest thing your going to get to a theocracy in the USA. If your not a member of the LDS then your a second class citizen.

Absolute craziest part is the red states receive more federal funding then the blue states do. How the heck can anyone rant about "welfare" and "social programs" when their the biggest recipients of it.

Also interesting to look at the support base's for each party, makes it a head scratcher.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/red-blue-states-summary.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

As for the whole libertarian argument. I'm from Maine, the state that elected two R senators, two D representatives and the Governor swings back and forth depending on whats going on, yet voted Obama (electoral college). We're kinda the definition of moderate libertarian (leave us alone!). Neither party is going to leave you alone, and right now the GOP is going to take more then the Dems are. Their not having the government take more, their having their corporate leadership take more (who exactly do you think runs the GOP anyway?). I would love nothing more then to have a real third party running. Would enforce the natural forces of supply / demand and market competition into elections, rather then two sides forcing false dichotomy onto the population. I'm for balance, and right now the GoP is nothing but extremists (that or their trying darn hard to appear that way). My own senator quit due to the extreme toxic climate inside the party, that kinda speaks volumes about the GoP. And while I detest liberals in general, the Democrats are appearing more sane and moderate each month.

Now how F*CKED up is that. The dems actually appearing sane ...... what's next, cats and dogs living together?

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