That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

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Diogenes
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That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by Diogenes »

Cops: On Duty Officer Raped Young Woman On Squad Car



Image

SAN ANTONIO - Friday morning. On duty. Full Uniform. Marked Squad Car. Officer Jackie Neal, 40, made a traffic stop and then allegedly sexually assaulted a 19-year-old woman, according to the San Antonio Police Department.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013 ... -Squad-Car


D@mn that war on drugs!
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by MSimon »

It is true. The war on drugs has given police a generally bad attitude about the public.

The wars on contraband generally do that. Anyone could have contraband . Searches will be required. Anal probes are the latest.
So from the above examples (from revolutionary times) we see what is happening is that the limits on government are being eliminated to solve a smuggling problem. The very problem the writers of the Fourth Amendment experienced in their own lives and therefore anticipated.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... dment.html
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by MSimon »

More here:

Cop rapes teen

The guy has left a trail of slime.

And here we find that an anonymous accusation is sufficient to take action against a citizen:
An anonymous tipster claiming that Reddie had marijuana in the home set off a string of incidents which turned a happy toddler into an orphan – and led a local newspaper to conduct its own investigation and issue its own report.

<snip>

A police officer who followed up on the tip stated he smelled marijuana at William Reddie’s home.

<snip>

But friends and family say CPS and state official should not have been at the home in the first place: Toxicology reports found no alcohol or marijuana in his system.

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/10/2 ... ake-child/
If you are innocent you have nothing to fear.

I wonder if the officer will get his nose recalibrated?

Or maybe he was trained by Leo the New Mexican drug dog. I say anal probes all around. That will teach them. Something.

Well there is always the possibility the police officer was lying.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by MSimon »

Do You Trust the Police?

A question like the one in the headline might seem a bit far afield for a finance and economics blog, but with our government increasingly looking like a Mussolini-style corpocracy, the actions of local government increasingly interact in troubling ways with our financial system.

As we discussed a couple of days ago, the rise in civil forfeiture as a way for local police forces to increase their budgets has escalated as a direct result of the financial crisis (both falling tax revenues and plunges in pension fund assets played a big role in creating or worsening red ink, so that even the normally recession-resistant police forces were facing staffing and hours reductions in many locations)

<snip>

Maybe I’m just an outlier, but here I am, in one of the tamest spots (in terms of police likely to get rough with a resident going about their normal business) and my default assumption with my own police force has become not to trust them. That may have been what I believed on some deeper level before, but that view has now become more apparent to me.

This is what we’ve lost with all these police abuses. Blacks and other minorities no doubt think my reaction is ridiculous (where have you been?) and my vantage no doubt reflects growing up in small town America a long time ago and living in professional enclaves since then. But as I mentioned above, Maine, which is a poor state, still seems to have relatively civilized police. I suspect that results from the fact that the communities are all not large (as in the police still are accountable to the locals and know many of them) and heavy-handed policing would be bad for business (as in it would scare off tourists, a big source of income for a lot of Maine).

Nevertheless, I wonder if a state change is well underway. There’s a big difference between recognizing that police often abuse and scapegoat out groups (that those police actions are big, ugly manifestations of broader patterns of prejudice) and seeing increasingly that only the very rich and connected are safe from tinpot tyranny or worse.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/ ... olice.html
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Stubby
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by Stubby »

Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

Diogenes
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:It is true. The war on drugs has given police a generally bad attitude about the public.


You do realize i'm funnin you on this? :)


Sometimes cops behaving badly is nothing more than Arrogant pricks with Uniforms and badges behaving badly.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by MSimon »

Diogenes wrote:You do realize i'm funnin you on this? :)
I recognized it from the first. But since you brought the subject up....

Let me remind you of another prohibition that turned the population against the police. Alcohol prohibition. It took 20 or 30 years for police to regain that trust.

And now we are at 58% against pot prohibition and 80+% against med pot prohibition.

The Republicans could capitalize on that only if they didn't lose their base from making such a move. So who will get the benefit? The other Progressive party. Because Prohibition is Progressive in its genesis.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Schneibster
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by Schneibster »

Shit, I ain't even sure if I want to argue against this, much less if I should. Unfortunately the hard conservatives mostly oppose it, other than the Libertarian Party. I feel that the Libertarian Party gave up a great deal of their legitimacy on this issue by surrendering on abortion.
We need a directorate of science, and we need it to be voted on only by scientists. You don't get to vote on reality. Get over it. Elected officials that deny the findings of the Science Directorate are subject to immediate impeachment for incompetence.

choff
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by choff »

One of the things I've picked up from other countries is that police are being sent to training courses that use behavior modification techniques/culture change/diversity/Neuro Linguistic Programming and it can have unwanted side effects on a small percentage of individuals. A lot people suspect some of the training is being done for nefarious reasons, i.e., they want police that will go along with a police state in the future, and people are being brainwashed without their knowing or consent.
CHoff

Schneibster
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by Schneibster »

I cannot imagine anything further to say but "we told you so."

Sorry you're butthurt. Maybe if you stopped voting for it.

Good luck.
We need a directorate of science, and we need it to be voted on only by scientists. You don't get to vote on reality. Get over it. Elected officials that deny the findings of the Science Directorate are subject to immediate impeachment for incompetence.

MSimon
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by MSimon »

D,

I was wondering. At the same time China was going opium mad opiates (including heroin after it was invented) were freely available in the US. Could you explain why our use rates never approached China's? Links if you have them.
There is some evidence that during prohibition, the average age of onset of alcohol use went down significantly, possibly because since alcohol sale was illegal in the first place, age restrictions on sales no longer applied. (A curious parallel can be seen today; young people take up using marijuana in greater percentages and at a younger age in the US than they do in the Netherlands, where marijuana is effectively legal but regulated.)

Alcohol prohibition was largely the work of religious conservatives who saw it as a way to combat the growing hedonism of urban dwellers; a return to old-time values and morality by attacking immoral lifestyles. The Protestant majority included in this category of 'social undesirables' the Catholics, whom they associated with alcohol use. Ironically, the passage of national prohibition marked the start of the Roaring Twenties, a period of drunken excess and sexual promiscuity that would not be equaled again until the Hippies.

Although alcohol use sharply declined immediately after the passage of prohibition, it immediately began an inexorable climb back up towards pre-ban usage levels. As public sentiment turned against prohibition, it became harder and harder to get juries to convict offenders. Finally admitting defeat, alcohol prohibition, America's "noble experiment", was repealed on December 5, 1933, and an unlucky thirteen years of government intrusion into people's lives ended in wild drunken celebrations.

http://thedea.org/prohibhistory.html
Not mentioned was the M/F ratio imbalance post WW1 and in the hippie era. As usual the "moralists" had the wrong target.

Instead of looking at some very old book for guidance they should have relied on modern research. Of no matter these days. The old religions are dying out. Gone in Europe and in a death spiral in the US. It is sad because there is some value there. The important values will be refound come the collapse. The unimportant ones will join the dust bin of history.

This final paragraph from an anti-opiate article most mirrors my understanding.
What none of the solutions—whether tending toward radical reform, or severe enforcement—addresses is the impulse that led Pavel to drugs in the first place. He is a lawyer who runs a market stall, a frustrated man who evidently prefers to corrode his veins rather than prolong his misery with sobriety and good health. Ultimately, the solution to the drug problem might be the solution to the problem of life, which is how to navigate our time here with minimal suffering. Unfortunately, the policy that offers that solution will be not a drug policy but an existential one, and it remains as elusive as ever.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113051/
I think it explains why we didn't have the opiate problems the Chinese did. We were never as unhappy. That is corroborated by our Vietnam experience where 45% of our soldiers used heroin in country and within a year in the US that number was greatly reduced. Conditions in the US were better than those in 'Nam.

Some links to the 'Nam study:
In Vietnam, soldiers who drank heavily almost never used heroin, and the people who used heroin only rarely drank. The mystery of the gateway drug was revealed to be mostly a matter of choice and availability. One way or another, addicts found their way to the gate, and pushed on through.
http://addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com/201 ... study.html
So our alcohol addiction of the pre-1914 period may have prevented heroin addiction. But the problem was neither alcohol nor heroin. It was harsh living conditions. When those abated only those with PTSD remained alcohol or heroin "addicts". And of course our "moralists" insist that punishing people with PTSD will cure them. Forgetting that it was trauma that gave them the PTSD in the first place. How Christian. I forgive those of the earlier era. All this was not well. Understood. I do not forgive those of this era where the understanding is freely available and rejected.

http://www.rkp.wustl.edu/VESlit/RobinsAddiction1993.pdf

Well all this misunderstanding is coming to an end. About 58% now favor general pot legalization and that number is still growing. On top of that the numbers favoring med pot legalization is in the 80% range. Once the drug hysteria dies down a rational look at the other drugs will be possible. Probably not in my lifetime for the other drugs. But it is coming. Because we will look at medical science rather than religion for answers. Another nail in the coffin of religion.
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MSimon
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Re: That War on Drugs is producing a totalitarian state.

Post by MSimon »

Schneibster wrote:I cannot imagine anything further to say but "we told you so."

Sorry you're butthurt. Maybe if you stopped voting for it.

Good luck.
The problem with the left is that they do not get economics. The problem with the right is that they do not get morals.

Each side fails where they claim the most expertise. I AM amused.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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