Iraq is falling

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:02 am

Image

Keep pulling until you hear that popping sound
If you do not believe first hand account, CIA report, CNN news, presidential address both democratic and republican.
I can not help you.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby ladajo » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:03 am

Again, no one else thought this was necessary.


Says you Skip.

In 2003 I was working as the only american on a foreign warship with a European staff that included France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal.
Every one of those officers including the Flag thought is was neccessary. I am guessing that their leadership thought it was neccessary as well, or they would not have been there.
Funny how European politicians can say one thing while doing another, don't cha' think?

I am guessing that you did not know that French and German (among others) warships were involved with the war effort.

You have a myopic view.

Well beyond WMD, Saddam was an asshole and he needed to go. They all agreed on that as well.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
Posts: 6045
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby Skipjack » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:05 am

paperburn1 wrote:Image

Keep pulling until you hear that popping sound
If you do not believe first hand account, CIA report, CNN news, presidential address both democratic and republican.
I can not help you.

None of them say anything of WMD facilities existing in Iraq in 2003. If there had been anything tangible, the republicans would have paraded it around like crazy, especially with all the shit they have been getting (and still are) for the complete lack of WMDs.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby ladajo » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:05 am

Wrong again.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:09 am

I said I can not help you sorry
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
Posts: 6045
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby Skipjack » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:12 am

ladajo wrote:
Again, no one else thought this was necessary.


Says you Skip.

In 2003 I was working as the only american on a foreign warship with a European staff that included France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal.
Every one of those officers including the Flag thought is was neccessary. I am guessing that their leadership thought it was neccessary as well, or they would not have been there.
Funny how European politicians can say one thing while doing another, don't cha' think?

I am guessing that you did not know that French and German (among others) warships were involved with the war effort.

You have a myopic view.

Well beyond WMD, Saddam was an asshole and he needed to go. They all agreed on that as well.

Hmm, I cant find any indication that Germany participated in the war.
I never said that Saddam was not an asshole, but people (at least those with foresight) understood that these people are not ready for democracy and Saddam was the only thing keeping the country and it various groups in check. Well we all see what happened now. I knew it was going to happen, strangely so did most Austrians. Most other countries that participated were NATO members, especially new members or member hopefuls. Most of them were only on humanitarian missions. The Italians called the war "a grave mistake that has complicated rather than solved the problem of security" when they withdrew in 2006.
And I still have not seen any evidence of any usable WMDs in Iraq.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby ladajo » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:25 am

You did not look hard enough Skip.
I can assure you that germany supported the war effort with direct actions of german military.

It is not easy to find, but you can if you look.
Here, I will throw you a bone. EUROMARFOR.
But I will also offer that there is more beyond that.
In fact, regarding France, I am also guessing that you did not know France offered a division of infantry in December of 2002 for combat in Iraq. It was politely refused as too late. I am also guessing that you did not know the CVN Charles De Gaul battlegroup sailed in early 2003 with intentions to go to the war. They turned around. But no matter, as French units were already operating in the middle east providing direct support.

You really are not well informed.
Do some homework.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Betruger
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby Betruger » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:59 am

Trivial nitpick
De Gaulle. Tricky to recall because it's (AFAIK) from Gaule (one L) the old (Iron Age) nation very roughly centered on France/Switzerland.

Skipjack's POV is very popular. I don't think I've heard of a different understanding, outside of niche communities like this one. No one that I know in real life circles. A pretty remarkable contradiction to the "victor writes history" adage.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:41 am

Maybe skipjack just does want to admit his country's involvement in helping Iraq make chemical weapons
You know a dissociative cognizance deal.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:43 am

Examples of CW use by Iraq include the following from the Final Report. (These are selected uses only. Numerous other smaller scale CW attacks occurred.)

Use in the Iran–Iraq War, 1983–1988[edit]
August 1983: Haij Umran — Mustard, fewer than 100 Iranian/Kurdish casualties
October–November 1983: Panjwin — Mustard, 3,000 Iranian/Kurdish casualties
February–March 1984: Majnoon Island — Mustard, 2,500 Iranian casualties
March 1984: al-Basrah — Tabun, 50–100 Iranian casualties
March 1985: Hawizah Marsh — Mustard & Tabun, 3,000 Iranian casualties
February 1986: al-Faw — Mustard & Tabun, 8,000 to 10,000 Iranian casualties
December 1986: Um ar-Rasas — Mustard, 1,000s Iranian casualties
April 1987: al-Basrah — Mustard & Tabun, 5,000 Iranian casualties
October 1987: Sumar/Mehran — Mustard & nerve agent, 3,000 Iranian casualties
March 1988: Halabjah & Kurdish area — Mustard & nerve agent, 1,000s Kurdish/Iranian casualties
April 1988: al-Faw — Mustard & nerve agent, 1,000s Iranian casualties
May 1988: Fish Lake — Mustard & nerve agent, 100s or 1,000s Iranian casualties
June 1988: Majnoon Island — Mustard & nerve agent, 100s or 1,000s Iranian casualties
July 1988: South-central border — Mustard & nerve agent, 100s or 1,000s Iranian casualties
Use at Halabja, 1988[edit]



Main articles: Halabja poison gas attack and Sardasht, West Azerbaijan
On March 16, 1988, the Halabja massacre occurred. The Iraqi army hit residential areas with sarin gas and the roads leading out of the city with mustard gas the day after. Most of the victims died within minutes after bombing and those who survived and tried to leave the city the following day were injured when passed contaminated roads. Civilians in residential areas in western Iran such as Noodsheh, Ghaleji, and Marivan were bombarded with nerve gas as well. The efforts of local health care centers played a significant role in decreasing the number of mortalities.

Use in Southern Iraq against the Popular Uprising, 1991[edit]
March 1991: an-Najaf - Karbala area — Nerve agent & CS, Shi’a casualties not known.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby ladajo » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:51 am

"Chirac Contre Bush: L'Autre Guerre" by Thomas Cantaloube and Henri Vernet, published October, 2004

To put this in perspective, I was told (by the French) of the French offer of combat troops in late January / early February, 2003 while in the Middle East before hostilities commenced.
Right around this event this was when the de Gaulle group sailed, and then went home, never leaving the Med.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Scupperer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby Scupperer » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:49 am

Wait just a minute! I thought it was gospel that there no WMD's in Iraq!

British Intelligence Summary of Iraq's WMD capabilities, 2002

The Salman Pak training/production facility and Al Qa'Qa chemical plants were repaired post Gulf War and in use prior to the 2003 invasion. Storage of older WMD munitions at Al Muthana were never disposed of from 92-02 as agreed under the cease-fire. Evidence of movement of newer WMD munitions out of Iraq prior to 2003 is also available.

ISIS now controls Al Muthana; lord knows what is still there and can still be made there.
Perrin Ehlinger

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:22 am

The real story is not that Iraq had weapons back then but who supplied materials and support.
isn't that right skipjack
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby GIThruster » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:51 pm

ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) terrorists have seized and gained control of the Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) that were stockpiled by former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

We’ve been told by the Democrat Media Complex that WMDs didn’t exist in Iraq, and that George W. Bush started the war against Saddam Hussein based on that false assumption.

Pelosi, for example, said that, “Bush led us into the war on the basis of unproven assertions.” And, let us not forget the moronic Democrat Party meme, “Bush lied, Americans died.”

How could the ISIS terrorists have taken over Saddam’s WMD facility if WMD’s never existed?

Like it or not, George W. Bush has now officially and forever been completely vindicated.

Although numerous Democrats, including Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Edwards, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and others, claimed from 1998 through 2002 that Hussein had WMDs, they labeled President George W. Bush a liar after the war in Iraq began for having made similar statements, despite the fact that the Democrats overwhelmingly voted for the war.

Every Democrat, including Obama, Reid, Pelosi and Wasserman-Shultz, who called George W. Bush a liar and every other hateful name in the book, including every MSNBC host, owes him a huge apology.

The UK Telegraph reports on this seizure of WMDs in Iraq.


Isis jihadists have seized a chemical weapons facility built by Saddam Hussein which contains a stockpile of old weapons, State Department officials have told the Wall Street Journal:

U.S. officials don’t believe the Sunni militants will be able to create a functional chemical weapon from the material. The weapons stockpiled at the Al Muthanna complex are old, contaminated and hard to move, officials said.

Nonetheless, the capture of the chemical-weapon stockpile by the forces of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, known as ISIS or ISIL, the militant group that is seizing territory in the country, has grabbed the attention of the U.S.

“We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL,” Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said in a written statement. “We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials.”

They continued with reporting on Saddam Hussein’s history of using these weapons.


The remaining chemical weapons from Saddam Hussein’s regime are stored in two sealed bunkers, both located at the Al Muthanna Chemicals Weapons Complex, a large site in the western desert some 80km north west of Baghdad.

This was the principal manufacturing plant for both chemical agents and munitions during Saddam Hussein’s rule.

Thousands of tonnes of chemical weapons were produced, stored and deployed by the Saddam Hussein regime. Iraq used these weapons during the Iran – Iraq War (1980 to 1988) and against the Kurds in Halabja in 1988.

The chemical weapons that were seized from the facility include mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and VX.

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/06/20/bush-vin ... acilities/
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: Iraq is falling

Postby GIThruster » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:56 pm

ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) terrorists have seized and gained control of the Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) that were stockpiled by former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

We’ve been told by the Democrat Media Complex that WMDs didn’t exist in Iraq, and that George W. Bush started the war against Saddam Hussein based on that false assumption.

Pelosi, for example, said that, “Bush led us into the war on the basis of unproven assertions.” And, let us not forget the moronic Democrat Party meme, “Bush lied, Americans died.”

How could the ISIS terrorists have taken over Saddam’s WMD facility if WMD’s never existed?

Like it or not, George W. Bush has now officially and forever been completely vindicated.

Although numerous Democrats, including Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Edwards, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and others, claimed from 1998 through 2002 that Hussein had WMDs, they labeled President George W. Bush a liar after the war in Iraq began for having made similar statements, despite the fact that the Democrats overwhelmingly voted for the war.

Every Democrat, including Obama, Reid, Pelosi and Wasserman-Shultz, who called George W. Bush a liar and every other hateful name in the book, including every MSNBC host, owes him a huge apology.

The UK Telegraph reports on this seizure of WMDs in Iraq.


Isis jihadists have seized a chemical weapons facility built by Saddam Hussein which contains a stockpile of old weapons, State Department officials have told the Wall Street Journal:

U.S. officials don’t believe the Sunni militants will be able to create a functional chemical weapon from the material. The weapons stockpiled at the Al Muthanna complex are old, contaminated and hard to move, officials said.

Nonetheless, the capture of the chemical-weapon stockpile by the forces of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, known as ISIS or ISIL, the militant group that is seizing territory in the country, has grabbed the attention of the U.S.

“We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL,” Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said in a written statement. “We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials.”

They continued with reporting on Saddam Hussein’s history of using these weapons.


The remaining chemical weapons from Saddam Hussein’s regime are stored in two sealed bunkers, both located at the Al Muthanna Chemicals Weapons Complex, a large site in the western desert some 80km north west of Baghdad.

This was the principal manufacturing plant for both chemical agents and munitions during Saddam Hussein’s rule.

Thousands of tonnes of chemical weapons were produced, stored and deployed by the Saddam Hussein regime. Iraq used these weapons during the Iran – Iraq War (1980 to 1988) and against the Kurds in Halabja in 1988.

The chemical weapons that were seized from the facility include mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and VX.

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/06/20/bush-vin ... acilities/

http://online.wsj.com/articles/sunni-ex ... 1403190600
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests