They have completely lost it now!!

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by GIThruster »

Skippy, I was living just outside NYC during 911. I doubt I knew anyone who did not know someone who died. Comparing that sort of tragedy to auto accidents and the flu makes you appear completely out of touch with the reality of what happens when people are MURDERED ON PURPOSE. It does not matter how many people die of cancer to those who lost people at 911, and pretending you can run the numbers in a meaningful way and ignore what is murder and what is not, is just idiotic. Murder makes a difference.
But, for the record, terror campaigns rarely succeed.
You need to keep in mind that this is not a campaign where the terrorists will eventually get tired of living a strained life and decide to collaborate. This is an idealogical war with people who have been doing just this stuff for more than 1,500 years. It is not going to go away, so there needs to be a real response to it.

One of the real victories of Afghanistan is, that these islamoterrorists found when they hit Americans hard, Americans go to war and kill people for a decade at a time. That has thrown the breaks on them in ways not seen back during the attack on the Cole, our embassies in Africa, etc. What was the kill ratio on Iraq? Something like 5,000 to 1? Whatever it was, it was so devastating that it does give terrorists pause to consider whether an attack on America is worth the response, and that is very important in reducing terrorism worldwide.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by Skipjack »

GIThruster wrote:Skippy, I was living just outside NYC during 911. I doubt I knew anyone who did not know someone who died. Comparing that sort of tragedy to auto accidents and the flu makes you appear completely out of touch with the reality of what happens when people are MURDERED ON PURPOSE. It does not matter how many people die of cancer to those who lost people at 911, and pretending you can run the numbers in a meaningful way and ignore what is murder and what is not, is just idiotic. Murder makes a difference.
I am sorry for your loss and those of your friends. Yes it is a tragedy and it heinous act and I fully agree with you that it is not comparable to an accident in terms of malevolence behind it. And I agree that murder needs to be punished.
But that does not change the fact that terrorism is not really a big threat, or very dangerous and that the whole security theater at the airport is completely pointless and does not really make anyone safer. When terrorists kill someone, it is a horrible crime, but so is being murdered by some bastard in Flint, Mi. And the latter has a higher chance of happening.
And I am sure that all those that have lost someone to cancer think the same way about those that have lost someone in 9/11. Face it, death is final and loosing a loved one is hard. 9/11 was exceptionally brutal and it is right to ask for retaliation, but a life lost is a life lost and it is a good question where the money is better spent. The whole security theater might safe a couple of hundred lives a year. Preventing DUIs might safe 10,000 a year. And I am sure that someone who has lost a loved one to a drunk driver will be quite angry too and will put it close to murder as well.
And don't even get me started on the hundreds murdered all over Michigan every year. But many cities in Michigan had to close down their police stations (Pontiac does not even have a single one anymore) and in some cities, the remaining police are so overwhelmed, that they wont even send a patrol to a burglary in progress anymore. Now I do have to wonder whether the money wasted on pointless (and not to mention incredibly annoying and expensive) security theater at the airport would not be better spent making cities safer, so businesses and jobs return there.

On the rest. I agree that punishing those responsible with all might is the way to go. But be careful who you hit. Every father who looses a child in a collateral damage is a potential future terrorist.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by GIThruster »

Skipjack wrote:But be careful who you hit. Every father who looses a child in a collateral damage is a potential future terrorist.
I can't argue with that. No collateral damage is acceptable damage and as our intel and precision strike capabilities grow, we reduce collateral damage.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by ladajo »

You need to keep in mind that this is not a campaign where the terrorists will eventually get tired of living a strained life and decide to collaborate. This is an idealogical war with people who have been doing just this stuff for more than 1,500 years. It is not going to go away, so there needs to be a real response to it.
Terrorism is always Ideological, and it has been around a lot longer than 1500 years.

There are many ways to address it, and circumstance generally dictates the most effective method. Dropping the hammer is but one way to attempt to deal with it, but does not always work for any given circumstance. In a number of cases it just exacerbated the issue, where in others it did work.

To defeat Terrorism, you have to understand its roots and attack them for the circumstance. But, again, in the end, most Terrorism campaigns run their course and die out with unsuccessful results. It does not mean you should let it run the course, it does mean that you should be thoughtful in how you attack and undermine it.
For example, police states tend to do better hostorically in terrorism suppression as they control information. And Terrorism is an information war as I said earlier. Controlling the narrative is key.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by GIThruster »

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

hanelyp
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by hanelyp »

Following the link to http://pro.moneymappress.com/EADZERONEW ... 149&h=true
A few thoughts:

"... Water is for fighting."
India using the Indus river for hydro-power shouldn't have any long term adverse impact on downstream demand. Reduction of seasonal variation is even a benefit. There would be a shorter term reduction of downstream flow as reservoirs fill. But hothead islamists would take any excuse to attack India.

Of all the places India's new missile could reach, Mecca and Media should be worried about a blowup between India and Pakistan. India is unlikely to target a US ally.

If aL-Qaeda or an allied group gets direct control of a nuclear warhead, it WILL be used. The question remains of where.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by Skipjack »

I have said it many times in the past, that Pakistan is a lot more worrying to me than Iran, even North Korea.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by Skipjack »

hanelyp wrote: Following the link to http://pro.moneymappress.com/EADZERONEW ... 149&h=true
Do not follow that link! When you try to leave the page you will get a "are you sure you want to leave this page" popup that blocks the browser. Clicking on any of the options will install malware on your computer! It might have done that anyway. I am running a virus scan now.

hanelyp
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by hanelyp »

Skipjack wrote:
hanelyp wrote: Following the link to http://pro.moneymappress.com/EADZERONEW ... 149&h=true
Do not follow that link! When you try to leave the page you will get a "are you sure you want to leave this page" popup that blocks the browser. Clicking on any of the options will install malware on your computer! It might have done that anyway. I am running a virus scan now.
Firefox, noscript, and linux. All I got when I said yes was a non-functional page.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

scalziand
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:09 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by scalziand »

Also you could equally dress a bomb as a WORKING battery,
Image
http://xkcdsw.com/2252

>.< That's from nearly five years ago.

choff
Posts: 2447
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by choff »

To say that terrorism rarely succeeds depends on the stated versus actual goals of terrorism. Nominally the terrorist is attempting to create an overreaction by the security forces of the target nation, leading to marshal law and eventual police state/totalitarianism. This was the case with Bader/Mienhoff, it's also the case with the current crop of Mideast terrorists, you only have to look at who actually created them in the first place.
CHoff

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by Skipjack »

choff wrote:To say that terrorism rarely succeeds depends on the stated versus actual goals of terrorism. Nominally the terrorist is attempting to create an overreaction by the security forces of the target nation, leading to marshal law and eventual police state/totalitarianism. This was the case with Bader/Mienhoff, it's also the case with the current crop of Mideast terrorists, you only have to look at who actually created them in the first place.
I cant remember Germany turning into a totalitarian police state due to Baader Meinhof...

choff
Posts: 2447
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by choff »

Baader Meinhof tried and failed, they wanted to turn Germany into a police state so the public would welcome Soviet takeover to get rid of it. AlCIAda has at least partway succeeded with the U.S., it's an open question if ISIS will finish the job. That's one of the reasons the west created them, have enough of them even been seen without a mask to confirm they aren't mercenaries. Funny how there's plenty of drones to launch strikes throughout the rest of the world, but none to spare in Iraq.
CHoff

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by ladajo »

There is a differnce between Terrorists and Insurgents.

Don't get me wrong, also don't miss the second part of what I said.
And when they did (more or less count them on your fingers), it was not in the intended way of the perpetrators. The outcomes generally were for the worse, and did not provide sought goals culmination for the insurgents.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

MSimon
Posts: 14334
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Re: They have completely lost it now!!

Post by MSimon »

This is a very old story. The spread of Islam is instructive. It is a very old script. And these boys want a return to that "glory" and the "jiz" that goes with it.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Post Reply