How to defeat ISIL

[choff]

It won't be stopped, it will only be very deliberately encouraged, same way the west supported the rise of the Wahhabi's. It serves a useful purpose having extremists in the middle east, it also serves a useful purpose opening up the U.S. southern border to very deliberately let these rodeo clowns infiltrate. The object of the exercise is to create a police state at home and ongoing conflict abroad for the arms trade and high oil prices.

[tomclarke]

One point is very right in all this. If a state treats terrorists like another state, it imparts a permanent legitimacy to the terrorists. They must never be treated as a state.
To defeat IS, it will take an immediate violence of action that disregards state taboos and sovereign considerations.
We more than likely will waffle for a decade or more, if history is any indicator, and then act in a too late, too expensive in blood and treasure endeavour that will only beget a follow on problem.

If we act now and decisively, it will end it. But the too late line is approaching rapidly. As it has already passed in Ukraine.

There is the possibility of very strong action now. There is a consensus of ALL the nations in the region, AQ, and all Western powers that ISIS must be stopped. The new Iranian leader may perhaps be capable of bringing the Iraqi Sunnis on board. It should ideally be a formal coalition centered on the US and Iran, invited by Iraq to help.

[choff]

It should be noted that in the Crimea the people voted majority in a referendum to succeed, also the people in E. Ukraine voted majority in a referendum to succeed. The Kiev neo Nazi government was installed by a western backed banker coup. When the rest of the population revolts against the Kiev government using the current western logic they all become terrorists.

[GIThruster]

Hard to imagine a Iran getting behind a coalition of any sort. You think there's actually a chance in hell Iran would support a punitive action against ISIL? Why would they? Are they more opposed to Shia control of the region for example, than a Kurdish and Suffi control?

[mvanwink5]

CHoff,
Orwell's 1984 always had an enemy to to take the focus of the human farm animals. So, in our Prog manipulated modern 'Utopia,' the Progs are always shifting the focus from one 'emergency' to another. Turns my stomach to see human farm animals fooled this way time and again. Time to get smart, humans, smell the Prog greasy hands on your heads as it is shifted from one narrative to another.

[mvanwink5]

There is a consensus of ALL the nations in the region

Nice repeat of the Prog narrative, you got the word 'consensus' in there, as if that means something important. And who created ISIL? Wasn't that done by the 'consensus' also? Perfect Prog human puppetry, nice human farm animal, here is your attaboy biscuit.

[GIThruster]

Surely you're not suggesting the progs engineered ISIL for their own purposes? I think this is bigger than US national politics. People overseas tend to judge Americans as a monolithic group just as we cast these generalizations about others (albeit foolishly.) Though such generalizations are not in general wise, some of them work and its that sort people tend to make. This lumps progs and traditionalists in together as Americans in how they're most easily manipulated as a whole. For instance, fly an aircraft into a skyscraper, or blow up a significant portion of a major US city, and you'll find progs and traditionalists together, looking for some serious punitive actions, like a decade of war. The only difference between progs and traditionalists on this issue is the progs will later pretend they didn't want to do what they chose to do, whereas the traditionalists will wear responsibility for the violence.

In either case, the proper response to ISIL is not really a partisan one. So in what sense do you think this is a prog ploy?

[mvanwink5]

GIT,
You mean you are surprised ISIL was created when we supplied Al Qaeda with arms? But yes, specifically, no doubt ISIL was not intended, however, everyone with eyes open knew the arming of radicals was not going to end well. Putin called it and said it was stupid what we did. This has been discussed, old ground. No, ISIL is a bonus for the Progs, who always need another attention diverting story.

[choff]

Iceland was put on the terrorist watch list by Tony Blair after they refused austerity and started putting bankers in jail. They have no standing army, no reserves, never been in a war, but we all have to be vigilant just in case we get attacked by a terror squad of Icelanders armed with pickled herring.

[choff]

There's a movie from the '80's that sums up the current situation perfectly. Explanation approximately midway through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfDzF2oN7Tc

AIRBOURNE!!!

[tomclarke]

Hard to imagine a Iran getting behind a coalition of any sort. You think there's actually a chance in hell Iran would support a punitive action against ISIL? Why would they? Are they more opposed to Shia control of the region for example, than a Kurdish and Suffi control?

ISIS is a particular very intolerant strand of Sunni. Iran is Shia. Iran take their role as the dominant Middle Eastern power seriously, and see ISIS as an unfriendly and rogue (because unpredictable) force. Of course both US and Iran have strong hard-line elements that hate each other's guts - so whether collaboration will be possible who knows?

Iran will consider joining forces with the United States to combat Sunni militants in Iraq, Hassan Rouhani, the Iranian president, said on Saturday in the clearest sign yet that the Islamic Republic is ready to set aside its decades-old enmity with Washington.
The Iranian leader's cautiously worded remarks came at a news conference in Tehran amid rising speculation that the recent gains of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) could force the two adversaries to forge an alliance of convenience.
"All countries need to embark on joint effort regarding terrorism," Mr Rouhani said after being asked if Iran was prepared to cooperate with America in Iraq.

[williatw]

16% of French Citizens Support ISIS, Poll Finds



A resident of Tabqa city touring the streets on a motorcycle waves an Islamist flag in celebration after Islamic State militants took over Tabqa air base, in nearby Raqqa city August 24, 2014. Stringer/Reuters

One in six French citizens sympathises with the Islamist militant group ISIS, also known as Islamic State, a poll released this week found.

The poll of European attitudes towards the group, carried out by ICM for Russian news agency Rossiya Segodnya, revealed that 16% of French citizens have a positive opinion of ISIS. This percentage increases among younger respondents, spiking at 27% for those aged 18-24.

A recent Ifop poll placed French president Francois Hollande’s approval rating at just 18.

France is home to an estimated 5 million Muslims, largely of North African descent, who arrived from the 1950s onwards in the wake of France’s decolonisation and the 1970s 'regroupement familiale' policy, which welcomed the families of migrant workers from ex-colonies

http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citiz ... nds-266795

[GIThruster]

Yes, it is that portion of the populous that is responsible for the most notorious of the gang rapes happening there. Last I read about it, a young Persian woman was raped by more than 70 men in public because she had dared to wear western clothing and the men decided she was just a cheap whore. And this is the trouble--if the people coming into your nation don't leave their Sharia law baggage at the door, you are going to find these Islamic practices in secular lands. And when those lands are not only secular, but democratic, Shira law becomes a serious possibility and threat.

Most Europeans are still seeing negative population growth but the Arab immigrants are not, so 60% today can be much larger tomorrow.

[williatw]

Most Europeans are still seeing negative population growth but the Arab immigrants are not, so 60% today can be much larger tomorrow.

From my link:

The survey also tested attitudes in Britain and Germany and found that 7% of British citizens responded favourably to ISIS. However, UK polling showed an inverse demographic trend to that of France, with support for ISIS rising with age. 4% of 18-24-year-olds saying they either strongly or somewhat support ISIS, compared to 6% of 24-35-year-olds surveyed and 11% of 35-44-year-olds. Positive attitudes to ISIS in Germany showed less divergence, remaining between 3% and 4% for all age groups.

Much lower in other European Countries...so there may be another factor at work (other than the higher percentage of Muslims in France):

The CESM factor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese-eat ... er_monkeys

[GIThruster]

27% French youth support ISIL: http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067123/isis-poll

So if you're going to say its only the extremists, and not part of Islam, you have to define "extreme" as 1/3 of the demographic, "French Youth".