Christians Oppose Healing The Sick On Moral Grounds

[MSimon]

Christians Oppose Healing The Sick On Moral Grounds

The Southern Baptist Convention’s top public-policy expert says any therapeutic benefits of medical marijuana are outweighed by costs to society that disproportionately burden the poor.

Russell Moore, head of the SBC Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said in a Jan. 23 podcast that he sees nothing immoral about the medical use of mind-altering drugs like morphine by people who are seriously ill, but he believes the real motive behind the push for legalization of pot is money.

“I think as Christians we need to recognize what’s happening here,” Moore said. “There is an industry — just as big tobacco was an industry that had a cheap product that was able to hook people in — we have the same sort of industry involved here with marijuana.”

Cheap medicine? Well he got that right. I estimate that cannabinoid medicine fully exploited could lower medical costs by $1 trillion a year in the USA alone.

I said further:

I do agree with him on one point. Jailing people for marijuana offenses IS done disproportionately to the poor. And of those poor, Blacks are even more disproportionately targeted. And the answer to that is to deny medicine to the sick?

It seems as if a number of our Christian brethren have seriously lost their way.

Of course that denial of medicine is opposed by Jews.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/11/jews ... ng-to-pot/

http://classicalvalues.com/2014/01/the- ... ohibition/

It seems like we are having a religious war. At least in part. And the Jews are winning.

What did my former Rabbi, Jeffrey Kahn, have to say? Rabbi Ties Jewish Faith to Medical Marijuana

"From the Jewish perspective, nothing is more important than the concept of healing and bringing sufferers relief," said Kahn, 61.

Evidently some Christian sects oppose that.

[GIThruster]

I was just looking through my mail here and noted a post from Joe Strout about you, Simon. In it, he told me you had promised him to knock off with your pro-drug posts spamming this forum. Apparently you told him you were going to stop this 18 months ago and I see no sign that you intend even to slow the pace of your steady, relentless taxing of people's patience here in the forum. So I'm reminding you--you gave Joe your word to stop this. You have been asked by myself and several others here to stop this. And yet, here you are, not only posting thread after thread, spamming your sickness into everyone's lives, but even here, now, editing a post from a thread not a single person answered that is many months old, just so it will pop up to be looked at by others who have already considered it to be the diseased bit of refuse that it is, and not worth their time.

What do you need to do to honor your word and knock off the spam? Why do you feel you have to each day, prove that druggies have no honor and integrity, and can only be counted on to cause trouble like small, angry children?

[hanelyp]

I think this sums it up fairly well:

The Southern Baptist Convention’s top public-policy expert says any therapeutic benefits of medical marijuana are outweighed by costs to society that disproportionately burden the poor.

When the cost of the "cure" outweighs the benefit, what position do you come down on?

[williatw]

When the cost of the "cure" outweighs the benefit, what position do you come down on?

I would say the costs to the poor of the WOD greatly exceed whatever benefit you think society (or the poor) get from the WOD. It is after all disproportionately the poor (particularly minority poor) who get arrested/charged/convicted/incarcerated for pot use while the bulk of the largely white middle/upper middle class users skirt off scott free.



Marijuana Arrests Continue to Fall as Decriminalization Legalization Spread

According to FBI numbers released today, police made 1,501,043 drug arrests last year, down from 1,552,432 in 2012, a drop of about 3 percent. Marijuana accounted for about 693,000 of those arrests (46 percent), down from about 750,000 (48 percent) in 2012. The 7.6 percent drop in pot busts entirely accounts for the decline in total drug arrests, which otherwise would have risen. As usual, the vast majority of marijuana arrests—88 percent, or about 609,000—involved simple possession, as opposed to manufacture or sale.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/10/marij ... fall-as-de

[williatw]

Marijuana Arrests Continue to Fall as Decriminalization Legalization Spread

Homicide rates continue to fall in the U.S. as well:

Overview
In 2013, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 14,196. This was a 4.4 percent decrease from the 2012 estimate, a 7.8 percent decrease from the 2009 figure, and a 12.1 percent drop from the number in 2004.
There were 4.5 murders per 100,000 people. The murder rate fell 5.1 percent in 2013 compared with the 2012 rate. The murder rate was down from the rates in 2009 (10.5 percent) and 2004 (18.3 percent).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... main_final

[MSimon]

I was just looking through my mail here and noted a post from Joe Strout about you, Simon. In it, he told me you had promised him to knock off with your pro-drug posts spamming this forum. Apparently you told him you were going to stop this 18 months ago and I see no sign that you intend even to slow the pace of your steady, relentless taxing of people's patience here in the forum. So I'm reminding you--you gave Joe your word to stop this. You have been asked by myself and several others here to stop this. And yet, here you are, not only posting thread after thread, spamming your sickness into everyone's lives, but even here, now, editing a post from a thread not a single person answered that is many months old, just so it will pop up to be looked at by others who have already considered it to be the diseased bit of refuse that it is, and not worth their time.

What do you need to do to honor your word and knock off the spam? Why do you feel you have to each day, prove that druggies have no honor and integrity, and can only be counted on to cause trouble like small, angry children?

Well I think if we can have a "Drug Loons" thread some counter information might be in order.

You aren't one of those Christians who wants to deny medicine to the sick are you?

In any case many of my postings on the subject are not pro drug. They involve the study of the body's endocannabinoid system. You have more endocannabinoid receptors than any other type. And they control the immune system among others.

And anandamide (an endocannabinoid) is known to be effective against breast cancer. THC is the plant analog of anandamide. Now what is pro drug there? Stricly information in this paragraph.

And I like to give lots of NIH links. You know. The Government's Medical Research bureau. We couldn't possibly have a pro drug government bureau. There are laws against it.

So far I haven't gotten any more missives on the subject from Joe. But if you want to complain feel free.

I do do some politics on the subject but I generally prefer to stick to research. And save the politics for "Drug Loons".

This is politics though. Kinda ugly dontcha think? Christians against healing the sick on moral grounds.

[MSimon]

I think this sums it up fairly well:

The Southern Baptist Convention’s top public-policy expert says any therapeutic benefits of medical marijuana are outweighed by costs to society that disproportionately burden the poor.

When the cost of the "cure" outweighs the benefit, what position do you come down on?

Well what are the costs of opiates? If their cost does not outweigh their benefit I hardly see how the costs of cannabis outweighs its benefits.

Maybe they are talking about the costs to their sect. When in which case they are correct.

But let us look at some of the costs and some of the benefits. First the voting public. In Florida 57+% of the voters in the last election thought the medical benefits exceeded the costs. Polling generally shows that about 60% to 80% of the public favors medical cannabis. So the Christians are outvoted. But they have a simple option. Don't use it.

A study was done in med pot states showing a decline in traffic deaths directly due to alkies switching to pot. That is no small benefit. We have ample anecdotal evidence of inoperable brain tumors cured by cannabis. That is no small benefit. To those it cures anyway.

What else? A cure for some (all?) cancers on the cheap. The NIH has amply documented that in animal studies. And we do have lots of anecdotes confirming the effect in humans. Who will such an effort harm. Those touting radiation and poison (chemo) therapies. Those therapies can cause cancer.

We have lots of research (animal) on autoimmune diseases such as MS and diabetes. It is now thought that a cannabis regimen could solve about 2/3rds of diabetes. That is no small benefit. And for people with MS? Stopping the progression and some reversal is huge for them.

And this is no small benefit:
Marijuana May Protect Teenagers from Brain Damage Caused by Alcohol
http://reset.me/story/marijuana-may-pro ... d-alcohol/

I think the harm cannabis causes to these Christians is mostly to their self respect and to their view of themselves. They have been committing crimes against humanity for 50 years. Behaving like Nazis in the persecution of their "enemies". As this comes out these sects will shrink for sure and possibly disappear. Serves them right.

What is in fact their biggest fear as expressed by "D" ? That medical will lead to legalization. That seems to be the progression. But all that says is that their fears are greatly exaggerated. "Reefer Madness". And D is always posting some kind of Refer Madness articles. Murders committed under the influence of cannabis. And conveniently leaving out the 10 or 100 or 1,000 murders committed under the influence of alcohol. The only drug we know proven to have an association with violence. But of course it is legal.

Historically Prohibition of widely popular drugs (above 5% of the population) last about 50 years. I'd say time is about up. If you count from Nixon's "War On Drugs" - 1970 to today is 44 years. By 2020 it will be all over except for reigning in high taxes which just support the Black Market. Another favorite of some Christian sects.

Christianity is on the decline in America. It is no wonder.


http://tobingrant.religionnews.com/2014 ... one-graph/

I am glad to be helping put a nail in that coffin. And all I had to do was expound on the science. The Pope is in trouble in that regard as well. He opposes medical cannabis as a threat to his religion. He is correct.

Well fortunately it is no threat to the Jews. Of which I'm at least a nominal member.

[MSimon]

You will note the recent decline in religion in America correlates well with the advent of medical cannabis - first in California in 1996. That is no proof of course. But it is suggestive.

The Christians of 100AD have become the Romans (persecutors) of today. If you read "Smoke and Mirrors" by Dan Baum you will find that "Christian" persecution of dopers runs through out the book. It was always a moral question. It was never about the harms. And now the consensus is that the morality opposes the persecution. Too fn bad.

But the fasces is not a good governing model in the long run. Those touting it eventually get seen for what they are. Fascists.

Repent.

[Stubby]

You will note the recent decline in religion in America correlates well with the advent of medical cannabis - first in California in 1996. That is no proof of course. But it is suggestive.

The Christians of 100AD have become the Romans (persecutors) of today. If you read "Smoke and Mirrors" by Dan Baum you will find that "Christian" persecution of dopers runs through out the book. It was always a moral question. It was never about the harms. And now the consensus is that the morality opposes the persecution. Too fn bad.

But the fasces is not a good governing model in the long run. Those touting it eventually get seen for what they are. Fascists.

Repent.

Correlation is not causation.
I would give credit to easier access to information. When people can get answers...
Maybe the true reason for attacking net neutrality is to control the information from non 'authorized' sources?

The distribution of information has always been to the detriment of religion.

[Ivy Matt]

Well I think if we can have a "Drug Loons" thread some counter information might be in order.

What's stopping you from creating "MSimon's Drug Thread" (or whatever you wish to call it) and posting there every time you have some new information you wish to share, or a new argument you wish to make? You can make it a sticky thread, if you like.

[GIThruster]

This is politics though. Kinda ugly dontcha think? Christians against healing the sick on moral grounds.

It's not politics. It's one person's opinion and there are Christians with far worse opinions than that. besides, you are mischaracterizing the statement. The guy said that the cure is worse than the disease and in almost all instances, he's right.

You would know that if you weren't an addict.