How is instinct transmitted?

[ohiovr]

Genetic traits have been known to be transmitted via dna for a few decades now. But where does the information that tells a monarch butterfly to migrate hundreds of miles reside? How is it transmitted from generation to generation. Some behaviors are flippin complex with insects and they certainly don't all have momma insects to tell them how to behave....

[ohiovr]

I'm only a layperson on topics like these but if DNA is the blueprint for how an organism is constructed, perhaps it also contains the blueprints for the construction of the neuron connections in higher beings. On the other hand, plants can have behaviors also in the case of the Venus flytrap and they certainly don't have a central nervous system.

[ohiovr]

layperson on pretty much any topic on this site

[djolds1]

I'm only a layperson on topics like these but if DNA is the blueprint for how an organism is constructed, perhaps it also contains the blueprints for the construction of the neuron connections in higher beings. On the other hand, plants can have behaviors also in the case of the Venus flytrap and they certainly don't have a central nervous system.

DNA is a blueprint, but not nearly so detailed a one as we thought 25 years ago. IIRC, only about 3000 genes control brain development, not the 30 to 50k we were thinking c.1990. That's a TINY number of genes for detailed control of brain formation, and therefore the encoded instructions for the construction of the human brain needs must be VERY generic. Not much room for many things beyond the basic motivations and ur-fears - food, drink, sex, falling, fire, etc. I suspect hormones and other strictly speaking "non-genetic" factors control a lot of apparently "hard coded" behavioral traits such as sexuality expressions, dominant vs submissive behaviors and gross temperament. Minor over or undersupplies of hormone exposure in utero would potentiate the fetal brain in one direction or another. Just as males who lose status drop in testosterone levels, a mother who has lost or gained status in recent months or years would communicate this to the brain formation of her fetal child via relative hormone levels, and the child would be born primed for a dominant or subordinate life.

[ohiovr]

What about all that supposed "junk dna"?

[djolds1]

What about all that supposed "junk dna"?

Possible raw-material genetic variation on standby in case of environmental change. Rapid fat production genes are unneeded in a Mediterranean environment, but if you move to the arctic circle or an ice age starts and the arctic circle moves to you, subsequent generations are going to need pro-insulation variation, and need it fast. Et cetera and so on for innumerable other rapid environmental shifts.

Human evolution is far more frequent, rapid and recent than the old assertions of "no human evolution for 50,000 years!" want to admit. "The 10,000 Year Explosion" and "A Troublesome Inheritance" are two recent, controversial books on the subject. Suffice for me that the rapidity of Ashkenazi evolution for cognitive overclocking over a mere 1000 years is to my satisfaction irrefutable, albeit with nasty side-effects (Tay Sachs, etc).

[hanelyp]

What about all that supposed "junk dna"?

I'm inclined to believe it influences expression of protein and RNA coding DNA sequences. Software to hardware represented by the coding sequences.

[MSimon]

What about all that supposed "junk dna"?

A lot of it is being found to not be junk.

[MSimon]

What about all that supposed "junk dna"?

Possible raw-material genetic variation on standby in case of environmental change. Rapid fat production genes are unneeded in a Mediterranean environment, but if you move to the arctic circle or an ice age starts and the arctic circle moves to you, subsequent generations are going to need pro-insulation variation, and need it fast. Et cetera and so on for innumerable other rapid environmental shifts.

Human evolution is far more frequent, rapid and recent than the old assertions of "no human evolution for 50,000 years!" want to admit. "The 10,000 Year Explosion" and "A Troublesome Inheritance" are two recent, controversial books on the subject. Suffice for me that the rapidity of Ashkenazi evolution for cognitive overclocking over a mere 1000 years is to my satisfaction irrefutable, albeit with nasty side-effects (Tay Sachs, etc).

Some think the Ashkenazi evolution for cognitive overclocking happened in 500 years producing a one standard deviation difference in average intelligence. Where that matters most is on the right hand tail of the curve. The high IQ side.

The atom bomb guys were mainly a Jewish club. But we also see that in other areas. Most prominent these days are the proponents of cannabinoid medicine where the Ashkenazi are way over represented. Raphael Mechoulam being a leader in the field. I would rate the discovery of the endocannabinoid system as one of the most important discoveries in medicine in the last 200 years.

Funny thing is the number of Americans who want to be protected from this science. It not fitting in with current social mores and laws.

[djolds1]

What about all that supposed "junk dna"?

Possible raw-material genetic variation on standby in case of environmental change. Rapid fat production genes are unneeded in a Mediterranean environment, but if you move to the arctic circle or an ice age starts and the arctic circle moves to you, subsequent generations are going to need pro-insulation variation, and need it fast. Et cetera and so on for innumerable other rapid environmental shifts.

Human evolution is far more frequent, rapid and recent than the old assertions of "no human evolution for 50,000 years!" want to admit. "The 10,000 Year Explosion" and "A Troublesome Inheritance" are two recent, controversial books on the subject. Suffice for me that the rapidity of Ashkenazi evolution for cognitive overclocking over a mere 1000 years is to my satisfaction irrefutable, albeit with nasty side-effects (Tay Sachs, etc).

Some think the Ashkenazi evolution for cognitive overclocking happened in 500 years producing a one standard deviation difference in average intelligence. Where that matters most is on the right hand tail of the curve. The high IQ side.

The timeline for Ashkenazi IQ evolution I'm familiar with is 800-1800AD, tho a 500 year period of evolution is plausible as well.

[Tom Ligon]

I'm only a layperson on topics like these but if DNA is the blueprint for how an organism is constructed, perhaps it also contains the blueprints for the construction of the neuron connections in higher beings. On the other hand, plants can have behaviors also in the case of the Venus flytrap and they certainly don't have a central nervous system.

Plants with fairly rapid motor responses include the Venus flytrap and Mimosas. Neither of these responses would qualify as instincts. They're more like reflexes.

Reflex: the doctor hits your knee and you respond with a slight kick.

A fly is sitting minding its own business when it detects rapid motion and an evasion reflex kicks in. The fly jumps up and back from where it was sitting and then flies forward. A person knowing this can kill the fly by triggering the response ... just clap your hands together above the fly.

Instinct: This would be a more complex response than a reflex. Honeybees are my favorites for this (my wife and I are beekeepers). Their repertoire of behaviors include a long series of jobs they take on as they age, culminating with foraging. Part of foraging is to report the location of prime resources using a complex dance that tells other bees the direction and distance to the resource. The other bees then find the resource using amazingly advanced solar navigation skills.

Reflexes don't require thought. Instincts do require some cognitive processing, and can be modified by learning. But instincts do appear to be mostly to entirely genetically transmitted. Bees do learn their locale, and the local resources, but they don't have to be taught their jobs.

[Tom Ligon]

The amount of DNA considered to be "junk" has been shrinking ever since I first heard the term while studying biology in the 1970's. I suspected then that "junk" was a term meaning "it does something important but we're too ignorant to recognize it."

Current appreciation for DNA is revealing that it is not just a bunch of templates for making proteins, it includes a large number of switches for determining when to make proteins, how much of each to produce, including a lot of subtle regulations thereof, and apparently with a lot of other regulatory functions. Don't think of it as a "blueprint." A computer program attached to a 3D printer and a control system would be closer to the truth.

Much of the DNA we considered to be junk in 1975 is now known to be regulatory.

The rest we're still too ignorant to recognize.

[MSimon]

The timeline for Ashkenazi IQ evolution I'm familiar with is 800-1800AD, tho a 500 year period of evolution is plausible as well.

I think the intense selection pressure was from about 1300 to 1800. The markers I use are the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492 and Martin Luther who died in 1546.

If you take a Jewish generation to be 30 to 35 years (they get married later and have children later) then you get about 15 generations in 500 years. That means a .01 Standard deviation shift per generation.

[djolds1]

The timeline for Ashkenazi IQ evolution I'm familiar with is 800-1800AD, tho a 500 year period of evolution is plausible as well.

I think the intense selection pressure was from about 1300 to 1800. The markers I use are the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492 and Martin Luther who died in 1546.

If you take a Jewish generation to be 30 to 35 years (they get married later and have children later) then you get about 15 generations in 500 years. That means a .01 Standard deviation shift per generation.

The author Jerry Pournelle posted an article about Ashkenazi cognitive overclocking on his website over a decade ago. IIRC, the math worked out that to get the +15% consistently and stably seen in Ashkenazim IQ testing over the last 120 years would take 40 generations of Mendelian trait amplification; i.e. 1000 years.

[Tom Ligon]

The timeline for Ashkenazi IQ evolution I'm familiar with is 800-1800AD, tho a 500 year period of evolution is plausible as well.

I think the intense selection pressure was from about 1300 to 1800. The markers I use are the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492 and Martin Luther who died in 1546.

If you take a Jewish generation to be 30 to 35 years (they get married later and have children later) then you get about 15 generations in 500 years. That means a .01 Standard deviation shift per generation.

The author Jerry Pournelle posted an article about Ashkenazi cognitive overclocking on his website over a decade ago. IIRC, the math worked out that to get the +15% consistently and stably seen in Ashkenazim IQ testing over the last 120 years would take 40 generations of Mendelian trait amplification; i.e. 1000 years.

I'd ask Jerry to comment on this but he's in the hospital at the moment, and we're hoping he recovers quickly. The guy's had a rough last few years, but keeps on ticking like the EverReady bunny.