I'll be going to grad school in the 2009-2010 time frame and I still don't know where to go.
When you apply to a grad school it is very unlikely that you will be admitted unless you find a professor there who shares similar research interests with you. Now, getting a PhD in engineering is no easy task and the last thing I want is to spend five to seven years of my life on something that I don't care about.
What I'd really like to do is some research on the actual construction of an ARC-QED rocket system like Bussard wrote about. I know we don't know for sure whether a polywell will work yet, but if it does then the people doing pioneering work on this will become pretty valuable. Then again, a career is a pretty big thing to gamble. But hey, someones got to take some risks.
So does someone here happen to know of anyone in academia with research interests which might be related? The closest I can think of is VASIMR.
QED Research for grad school??
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Jeff Peachman
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- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:47 pm
QED Research for grad school??
- Jeff Peachman
Search the web! You can definitely do what you want in grad school, the trick is to find the prof that is interested in what you are interested in. usually, that is pretty easy.
In engineering it is hard to keep students for grad school because they can go get real jobs and earn money with a BS degree. There is plenty of money for grad students to stay (but the pay is way lower than a real job!).
Do a search on "ion rockets" or "electric propulsion". You will find lots of people interested in doing research along the lines you like, and then it will be a matter of personality - do you get along with that kind of prof? You really want to talk to all the profs you can to find out - and they want to talk to you!! As soon as they know fresh meat is available, they will try to hook you in
In engineering it is hard to keep students for grad school because they can go get real jobs and earn money with a BS degree. There is plenty of money for grad students to stay (but the pay is way lower than a real job!).
Do a search on "ion rockets" or "electric propulsion". You will find lots of people interested in doing research along the lines you like, and then it will be a matter of personality - do you get along with that kind of prof? You really want to talk to all the profs you can to find out - and they want to talk to you!! As soon as they know fresh meat is available, they will try to hook you in
From the "Science Fiction" thread in this section, we ran across the flying saucer idea. The effect is feeble, but real, and constitutes a sort of ion propulsion. It might be worth a peek to see what else the University of Florida is cooking up along these lines.
"Subrata Roy, an engineering professor at the University of Florida, is trying to patent his design of a circular, spinning aircraft he dubs WEAV, short for wingless electromagnetic air vehicle."
U of Wisconsin and U of Illinois (George Miley) are strong in IEC fusion, and may wind up as Polywell centers if things go well at EMC2 this summer. Any place capable of handling a Polywell, of any size, could conceivably do ion or arc-jet thruster work.
I'd check the JPL website and find some schools that have worked with them on this sort of project. NSTAR/Deep Space 1 is an ion rocket, and there have been a number of arcjet programs, such as ESEX, in the tens of kilowatts.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/
"Subrata Roy, an engineering professor at the University of Florida, is trying to patent his design of a circular, spinning aircraft he dubs WEAV, short for wingless electromagnetic air vehicle."
U of Wisconsin and U of Illinois (George Miley) are strong in IEC fusion, and may wind up as Polywell centers if things go well at EMC2 this summer. Any place capable of handling a Polywell, of any size, could conceivably do ion or arc-jet thruster work.
I'd check the JPL website and find some schools that have worked with them on this sort of project. NSTAR/Deep Space 1 is an ion rocket, and there have been a number of arcjet programs, such as ESEX, in the tens of kilowatts.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/
Don't worry about "risking" your career by doing you PhD work on this kind of thing.
With a PhD in engineering you can pretty much write your own ticket a lot of places.
I never did work in my degree field after I left academia.
Just having the piece of paper puts you playing on a whole other ball field.
If you do what you love you will do well.
With a PhD in engineering you can pretty much write your own ticket a lot of places.
I never did work in my degree field after I left academia.
Just having the piece of paper puts you playing on a whole other ball field.
If you do what you love you will do well.
-Tom Boydston-
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it?" ~Albert Einstein
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it?" ~Albert Einstein
I pretty much have had a very interesting career as a non-degreed engineer. Aerospace even. Contract work. That means you get the problems the usual crew couldn't solve. Lots of R&D. Fun stuff. Which brings me to this point:tombo wrote:Don't worry about "risking" your career by doing you PhD work on this kind of thing.
With a PhD in engineering you can pretty much write your own ticket a lot of places.
I never did work in my degree field after I left academia.
Just having the piece of paper puts you playing on a whole other ball field.
If you do what you love you will do well.
If you do what you love you will do well.
That really is the key.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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StevePoling
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: grand rapids, MI
- Contact:
grants
I got my Masters' degrees in non-thesis programs. Pretty straightforward, take courses, get degree. I did not attempt a PhD and living in the city I do, I won't drive halfway across state to enroll in a PhD program. Nevertheless, I've watched my friends get PhDs (or languish ABD) and devised a strategy that I'd like confirmed:
1) start with a government grant. there are lots of problems that the government wants solved, and they'll grant a few thousand bucks for research about it. I seem to recall something called SBIR many years ago, and I'd look for something similar. (I suppose that the feds would love to have better sniffers for suitcase nukes or dirty bombs.) When you find a problem you want to work and government dollars to solve it, move to step #2.
2) talk to department chairmen at PhD-granting universities asking if they know how that government grant money could be spent. And whether they think a PhD candidate could do the research there. Talk to different chairmen until you find one who can answer in the affirmative and meshes with your personality. When found, move to step #3.
3) enroll at said institution, do your coursework and solve the government's problem. It seems reasonable to presume (and I'm only presuming) that the department chair will not want the money flow from the government disturbed and he'll make sure your committee isn't staffed with dorks pulling you in opposite directions.
Whereas various degrees demand different skillsets of the student, a PhD program generally requires some political skills. You'll note my fairly cynical tone. I've recommended you put the goal of the PhD first in your mind and put considerations like learning and scholarship secondary. Thus, you'll want to talk to a number of PhDs and ABDs ascertaining what made them push through successfully, or fail to clear the last hurdle. If they something different, listen to them.
1) start with a government grant. there are lots of problems that the government wants solved, and they'll grant a few thousand bucks for research about it. I seem to recall something called SBIR many years ago, and I'd look for something similar. (I suppose that the feds would love to have better sniffers for suitcase nukes or dirty bombs.) When you find a problem you want to work and government dollars to solve it, move to step #2.
2) talk to department chairmen at PhD-granting universities asking if they know how that government grant money could be spent. And whether they think a PhD candidate could do the research there. Talk to different chairmen until you find one who can answer in the affirmative and meshes with your personality. When found, move to step #3.
3) enroll at said institution, do your coursework and solve the government's problem. It seems reasonable to presume (and I'm only presuming) that the department chair will not want the money flow from the government disturbed and he'll make sure your committee isn't staffed with dorks pulling you in opposite directions.
Whereas various degrees demand different skillsets of the student, a PhD program generally requires some political skills. You'll note my fairly cynical tone. I've recommended you put the goal of the PhD first in your mind and put considerations like learning and scholarship secondary. Thus, you'll want to talk to a number of PhDs and ABDs ascertaining what made them push through successfully, or fail to clear the last hurdle. If they something different, listen to them.
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Mike Holmes
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:15 pm
Following on what Tom Ligon said, and having spent a lot of time at the University of Wisconsin, I can suggest it as the place to go if what you want to do looks anything at all like something a mad scientist would do. Like fusion power.
Yes, just like Dr. Evil got his degree at evil doctor school, you can get your Doctorate of Mad Science (MS.D.) at Madison.
My favorite example from when I was at school there were the life-sciences guys who struck natural chemicals with lightning to produce amino acids, thus proving that it was possible that life began from "primordial ooze." How very Frankenstein. Or how about the fact that you could walk into the fission reactor there off the street if you wanted to take a look around at it.
Note that if you can't stomach a liberal atmosphere that UW Madison is not the place for you. The place makes Berkely look like a bunch of right-wing fundamentalists. Which is interesting given that the economy of the place is supported entirely by the massive amount of grants that come into the school. More MDs per capita in Dane County than anywhere else in the world.
"Why can't a guy with a master's degree get a job driving taxi in Madison? Because the Phd's all have those jobs."
I worked at a fast food place there to make ends meet. The manager had a degree in Aviation Management (pilot), the assistant manager had two master's degrees in Engineering Mechanics (not Mechanical Engineering, mind you). One of the workers there was also a producer at the local NBC affiliate station - she did the news. Another worked in philosophy with some of the best minds in the country.
Part of it is the drinking. What we Wisconsinites call "social drinking" would be alcoholism anywhere else in the country. The weekend starts on Thursday in Madison. Sometimes ends on Tuesday morning. This keeps the thought processes very... um... fluid...
Madtown is a strange, strange place. But I'll never regret the experience of having attended the University of Wisconsin. If you want to try to get some magical technology to appear, it's quite the right atmosphere to attempt it. Anything is possible in that town.
Mike
Yes, just like Dr. Evil got his degree at evil doctor school, you can get your Doctorate of Mad Science (MS.D.) at Madison.
My favorite example from when I was at school there were the life-sciences guys who struck natural chemicals with lightning to produce amino acids, thus proving that it was possible that life began from "primordial ooze." How very Frankenstein. Or how about the fact that you could walk into the fission reactor there off the street if you wanted to take a look around at it.
Note that if you can't stomach a liberal atmosphere that UW Madison is not the place for you. The place makes Berkely look like a bunch of right-wing fundamentalists. Which is interesting given that the economy of the place is supported entirely by the massive amount of grants that come into the school. More MDs per capita in Dane County than anywhere else in the world.
"Why can't a guy with a master's degree get a job driving taxi in Madison? Because the Phd's all have those jobs."
I worked at a fast food place there to make ends meet. The manager had a degree in Aviation Management (pilot), the assistant manager had two master's degrees in Engineering Mechanics (not Mechanical Engineering, mind you). One of the workers there was also a producer at the local NBC affiliate station - she did the news. Another worked in philosophy with some of the best minds in the country.
Part of it is the drinking. What we Wisconsinites call "social drinking" would be alcoholism anywhere else in the country. The weekend starts on Thursday in Madison. Sometimes ends on Tuesday morning. This keeps the thought processes very... um... fluid...
Madtown is a strange, strange place. But I'll never regret the experience of having attended the University of Wisconsin. If you want to try to get some magical technology to appear, it's quite the right atmosphere to attempt it. Anything is possible in that town.
Mike
You got Madison right! I moved back here to raise my kids in a fun place. Also remember that the Onion started in Madison.
The main key needs to be repeated though - deep down inside it has to feel good.
Madison is a good place - the nuke department and the aerospace department merged a few years back, so working on a fusion rocket engine would fit perfectly with what these profs do.
But check every where - you will not only have a choice of profs, you will have a choice of locale that suits your fancy too.
The main key needs to be repeated though - deep down inside it has to feel good.
Madison is a good place - the nuke department and the aerospace department merged a few years back, so working on a fusion rocket engine would fit perfectly with what these profs do.
But check every where - you will not only have a choice of profs, you will have a choice of locale that suits your fancy too.
SBIR's (Small Business Innovative Research grants) are still available and are a useful stepping stone for small R&D companies. My company used them before becoming a big company, and they are available to outfits like EMC2. They do pre-suppose a business of some sort, so you would probably partner-up with a business to get one. That could be good if you do the creative work and they handle the business side.
Similar purely academic project grants are no doubt available via some non-small-business route, I just don't encounter them in my line of work.
Check into the projects DARPA has on their to-do list. They have certainly backed ion and arc-jet rocket motors in the past, and are probably still highly interested. They have been known to back some nutty out-of-the-box ideas, including one called the "Polywell".
Similar purely academic project grants are no doubt available via some non-small-business route, I just don't encounter them in my line of work.
Check into the projects DARPA has on their to-do list. They have certainly backed ion and arc-jet rocket motors in the past, and are probably still highly interested. They have been known to back some nutty out-of-the-box ideas, including one called the "Polywell".
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Jeff Peachman
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:47 pm
Well I've certainly got a decision coming up here. My baseline plan for the last year has been the so-called "safe" plan: Get a non-thesis masters in space systems engineering and get a job working at a desk. It seemed pretty appealing until my internship this year. Despite all that engineers know, even the engineers that have been working for 5 years don't get very much respect, or interesting work. And a lot of the technical work is something of a waste of a top-notch engineering education.
Of course making 75k a year (on average) with that degree is really tempting, but I guess I need to worry more about what I like rather than the money.
I've only started thinking about the PhD because I'd like to do something I enjoy (As MSimon pointed out). You definately have to sacrifice for that though because if you want an aerospace PhD you had better REALLY want that degree.
Steve, I really like your idea. Is there a resource anyone would recommend for government research grants such as this?
The reason I like your idea is because the cynisim is realistic. There are subjets I'm very interested in working on that I feel qualified to pursue, but without the PhD I have absolutely no credibility. So I need to go through some BS for a few years to get my PhD as quickly as possible, and start my real work as a post-doc.
Mike: U of Wisconsin sounds great. I go to U. of Michigan so I'm definately used to the liberal atmosphere (and prefer it for some issues). I'm growing out of the drinking though. And why would I have to drive a cab with a PhD? Can't I just be a teaching assistant or something?
Of course making 75k a year (on average) with that degree is really tempting, but I guess I need to worry more about what I like rather than the money.
I've only started thinking about the PhD because I'd like to do something I enjoy (As MSimon pointed out). You definately have to sacrifice for that though because if you want an aerospace PhD you had better REALLY want that degree.
Steve, I really like your idea. Is there a resource anyone would recommend for government research grants such as this?
The reason I like your idea is because the cynisim is realistic. There are subjets I'm very interested in working on that I feel qualified to pursue, but without the PhD I have absolutely no credibility. So I need to go through some BS for a few years to get my PhD as quickly as possible, and start my real work as a post-doc.
Mike: U of Wisconsin sounds great. I go to U. of Michigan so I'm definately used to the liberal atmosphere (and prefer it for some issues). I'm growing out of the drinking though. And why would I have to drive a cab with a PhD? Can't I just be a teaching assistant or something?
- Jeff Peachman
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Jeff Peachman
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:47 pm
Oh yeah one more thing I forgot to mention.
The risk of getting a PhD also involves getting stuck in a program that never gives you the degree. My brother is having this problem in chemistry at Ohio State right now.
I guess the political issue is pretty key. I'm good with people but I don't have much of an understanding of these issues, unfortunately.
The risk of getting a PhD also involves getting stuck in a program that never gives you the degree. My brother is having this problem in chemistry at Ohio State right now.
I guess the political issue is pretty key. I'm good with people but I don't have much of an understanding of these issues, unfortunately.
What's ABD?Nevertheless, I've watched my friends get PhDs (or languish ABD)
- Jeff Peachman
DARPA has their own website:
http://www.darpa.mil/
Checking in at this site's parent, I saw this in Advanced Topics. "Out of This World: NASA Funds Revolutionary Ideas." I honestly have not even looked at it, but maybe there is something you can use?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=1179.0
http://www.darpa.mil/
Checking in at this site's parent, I saw this in Advanced Topics. "Out of This World: NASA Funds Revolutionary Ideas." I honestly have not even looked at it, but maybe there is something you can use?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=1179.0
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StevePoling
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: grand rapids, MI
- Contact:
the best in the country
I described this thread to my daughter who's in the umich nuclear engineering program. She says that she knows another student (not Jeff) at umich who's interested in nuclear propulsion.
My daughter says the UofM is the best in the country. And if you go there you should know this already. She's not biased or anything.
My daughter says the UofM is the best in the country. And if you go there you should know this already. She's not biased or anything.
Too close to home...
I have to relate that I am enjoying this discussion - just because it is hitting too close to home!
No, I am not looking for a PhD - but rather face the option to transition from the military in just under a year (I don't have to retire, but hit 20 years next summer).
Much of the advice I hear for Jeff coming out of school has been offered to me;
- Go find a place where you are excited to come to work each day (MSimon offered "If you do what you love you will do well"... drmike said, "deep down inside, it has to feel good.")
- The money isn't really all that important
- When looking at a company (really, them looking at you!), how you fit in with the existing corporate (Jeff, insert academic) atmosphere is more important than your paper qualifications. How you might work with the people there is a much bigger deal than how smart you are.
And for me, possibly about to leave the Navy - "For the first time in your life, you get to decide where you want to go!"
Jeff - best of luck in finding your future!
Be Safe
Mumbles
ABD - All But Dissertation. Coursework complete, but thesis not approved.
SBIR - http://www.navysbir.com or http://www.onr.navy.mil. I am sure there are SBIR sites for the other services as well. They just weren't sitting on my desk like these were.
No, I am not looking for a PhD - but rather face the option to transition from the military in just under a year (I don't have to retire, but hit 20 years next summer).
Much of the advice I hear for Jeff coming out of school has been offered to me;
- Go find a place where you are excited to come to work each day (MSimon offered "If you do what you love you will do well"... drmike said, "deep down inside, it has to feel good.")
- The money isn't really all that important
- When looking at a company (really, them looking at you!), how you fit in with the existing corporate (Jeff, insert academic) atmosphere is more important than your paper qualifications. How you might work with the people there is a much bigger deal than how smart you are.
And for me, possibly about to leave the Navy - "For the first time in your life, you get to decide where you want to go!"
Jeff - best of luck in finding your future!
Be Safe
Mumbles
ABD - All But Dissertation. Coursework complete, but thesis not approved.
SBIR - http://www.navysbir.com or http://www.onr.navy.mil. I am sure there are SBIR sites for the other services as well. They just weren't sitting on my desk like these were.