Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

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MSimon
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Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by MSimon »

There are too many links to leave here so here is the master link:

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/02/4-rea ... g-shootout

This week one of the people arrested at the scene, Matthew Clendennen, filed a lawsuit directly against the officers involved in the incident (Manuel Chavez by name, the others as John and Jane Does) as well as the city.

From that suit filing, in which Mr. Clendennen presents himself as a man with no criminal record, former fireman, small business owner on whom employees depend, and father of three who also depend on his ability to earn income, not to rot in jail. He insists he committed no crime and had no intention of committing any crime when he was arrested while in the Twin Peaks restaurant in the aftermath of the shooting event,

==================================

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks ... ml?photo=1

Waco police have said that all those arrested after the shooting belonged to criminal motorcycle gangs

=======================

The Englishes said they had no part in the fight, and aren't members of the Cossacks or Banditos gangs.

Still, Waco police handcuffed them and some 170 others at the scene.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /28341653/

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Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Diogenes
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by Diogenes »

Oh thank God that you didn't bring drugs into this discussion! I have no interest in participating in another endless iteration of your pet bugaboo. I am interested in this Waco incident precisely because it does appear to be a legitimate abuse of police/prosecutorial powers.


It appears that everyone who was killed was shot by Police. It appears as if this entire incident was a deliberate police ambush of the Bikers at the meeting. Since it also appears that the ATF was involved, the chances that it was an utter screw up and massive abuse of police powers becomes all the more likely.


The ATF has, for a long time, been the most incompetent Federal law enforcement agency in the Entire US Government. They bumble just about everything they touch.


I am going to be watching with interests what happens to the surviving bikers, and what happens to the officials responsible for killing the ones who died. This is shaping up to be an attempted coverup of an abuse of power, so we need to scrutinize this incident very closely.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by MSimon »

Biggest Gulag in the world.

Killing people by denying them medicine.

Racist enforcement.

Prohibition is an abuse of Power.

Land of the Free. A Country you can be proud of.

================

Well I wouldn't want you disappointed.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

choff
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by choff »

The gangs were already infiltrated by the police to begin with, makes the question of who was shooting who more complicated.
CHoff

paperburn1
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by paperburn1 »

qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent. "He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas"
I have never see a more appropriate quote for this situation. Gangs have been infiltrating biker groups for years in order to add legitimacy to their cover. Without a doubt there were innocent people arrested and with as much force I can also guarantee some bad guys were as well.
If you like the bad boy image then when people mistake you for a bad guy do not be surprised or offended. This is something your brought down on yourself.
Dress like a biker, people think you a biker, dress like a doctor and people think your a doctor. You can see why people get confused.
Imagine this scenario, your dressed like a doctor and at a gathering someone has a heart attack. People run up to you and say "Help him, he needs a doctor"
You reply "Sorry I am not a doctor I can not help you"
At first the people think your lying, then they get mad and wonder why you would do such a screwed up thing. You dressed like a doctor, you acted like a doctor and now when people treat you like a doctor you get mad.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

MSimon
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by MSimon »

paperburn1 wrote:qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent. "He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas"
I have never see a more appropriate quote for this situation. Gangs have been infiltrating biker groups for years in order to add legitimacy to their cover. Without a doubt there were innocent people arrested and with as much force I can also guarantee some bad guys were as well.
If you like the bad boy image then when people mistake you for a bad guy do not be surprised or offended. This is something your brought down on yourself.
Dress like a biker, people think you a biker, dress like a doctor and people think your a doctor. You can see why people get confused.
Imagine this scenario, your dressed like a doctor and at a gathering someone has a heart attack. People run up to you and say "Help him, he needs a doctor"
You reply "Sorry I am not a doctor I can not help you"
At first the people think your lying, then they get mad and wonder why you would do such a screwed up thing. You dressed like a doctor, you acted like a doctor and now when people treat you like a doctor you get mad.
Yes. Quite right. Anyone who dresses like a Jew deserves to be shot. Sure mistakes will be made. But they had it coming.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

paperburn1
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by paperburn1 »

So your saying all Jews need to be shot? No Simon, that is bad.
As I am talking to Simon I will explain in simpler terms
I was saying you need to be responsible for your conduct and actions.
When you are at a major outlaw gang meeting where over half the people there belong to a criminal gang , this most likely is not a venue where you would want to take your loved ones dressed up like the bad guys.
The cops are not going to ask questions, they are going to sort it out later in their own fashion. Is that something you really want to be a part of happening?
Large groups of People are no longer holding themselves accountable for their personal actions. Blaming others so they can continue with their behavior.
As with the twin peaks restaurant the police came to them days before and told them there was trouble going to happen and they should cancel the event.(yes they had informants/undercovers in the gangs) They decided not to as money was more important than safety of the patrons.
The gangs meeting there were dividing up the area for drugs and prostitution sales and to settle disputes about who could sell what where under the cover of a legitimate helmet law meeting
As far as I know everyone arrested was displaying colors. Those that were not were let go.
Lie with dogs and you get fleas, if you can not understand that.... I can not make it any simpler.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

paperburn1
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by paperburn1 »

I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

MSimon
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by MSimon »

Well paper,

You seem to be saying that shooting people because of the clothes they wear and their preferred mode of transport is not unexpected. Evidently you failed to get my point.

And if the police started the shooting? All the worse.

But I get your point. If you want a better chance of getting away with a crime dress like a banker. Even better - be a banker.

Nixon understood this:

"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

And American police follow that model to this day. Some are more equal under the law than others. We do have some police unhappy with this state of affairs.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

and a friend of mine

Modern Prohibition/War on Drugs is the most destructive, dysfunctional and immoral policy since slavery & Jim Crow - Retired Police Detective Howard Wooldridge

Citizens Opposing Prohibition


Free country my XXX.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

paperburn1
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by paperburn1 »

Alas, why did I even bother.
Simon try living in the present not the past.

Your obtuseness might have been cute at some point in your life but now its just bothersome.

All the people killed were members of two different gangs that came down to establish turf wars about drugs and prostitution.
fact over 100 guns and counting and approximately 300 weapons were ditched at the crime scene.

Oh here I go again trying to explain facts to someone unwilling to listen and engage in a realistic discussion of events. But just interjects straw-man arguments to win. Sorry folks I will try not to be baited in again

Bother
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

williatw
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by williatw »

More "isolated incidents" from our stalwart champions of justice:

Destroying Cameras, Eating Edibles and Playing Darts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDjts_FgKfw


Cops in Santa Ana, California, donned ski masks to break and enter into a local medical marijuana dispensary, raiding it with guns drawn in a May 27 police action. They then proceeded to remove surveillance cameras and recording equipment, but they didn't remove it all. Video from a camera they didn't disable also caught the officers eating what appear to be marijuana edibles, then acting in a way to suggest they had become intoxicated, with one officer even joking that she'd love to kick a marijuana activist present at the raid, Marla James, an amputee, in the "nub."


As OC Weekly reports, the dispensary that was raided, the Sky High Collective, was one of several in Santa Ana that was not selected in a lottery process in February that permitted a limited number of dispensaries to operate. Via the OC Weekly blog:


James and her husband David told the Weekly that they were present at Sky High because their attorney Matt Pappas, had learned the collective would be raided from Santa Ana's city attorney, Sonia Carvalho."

"When they came back into the back room when David and I were, they asked us why we were there, and I told them we were there to observe them, the police," James recalled. "And they were really surprised about that." When James told the officers that "Sonia" had told her attorney about the raid, the officers didn't recognize the name. "They had no idea and it made them seem kind of stupid and maybe that's why they got mad."

James struggled to understand why the female officer in the video would make fun of her disability.

"You know what, I was really nice to that woman," James said. "I even complimented her on her hair. I treated that woman with respect and I have no idea why she wanted to kick my stump."

The police department insists the video that was made public was edited and not in chronological order, and have started an internal investigation, saying they hope unedited video will give them a "clearer picture" of what happened.

As other states move to legalize marijuana more forcefully and clearly than California has over the last twenty years, the problem of licensing shouldn't be ignored. Where the government legalizes marijuana by creating a legalized monopoly or cartel, they are keeping significant numbers of non-violent people out of the legal framework and in the crosshairs of authorities.


https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/12/cops ... -s#comment

paperburn1
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Re: Waco Shoot Out Begins To Unravel - Police Implicated

Post by paperburn1 »

The problem is the percentage of corrupt officer has risen above the "acceptable" level.
Its no longer protect and serve , us against them. Any real police department would have the stump kicker on a desk as soon as the words came out of her mouth.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

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