Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

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Diogenes
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Diogenes »

Tom Ligon wrote:Trump is either slowly figuring this out, or else finally listening to people who knew already.

Yes, there were two sides to the Charlottesville event. Or "many". This being America, first amendment and all that, even Nazis get to say what they think in public. The government should not prevent it. That means it is up to decent citizens to answer back loudly. When the KKK, neo-NAZIs, white supremacists, etc. show up, a hoard of responsible people who believe in this country need to use their first amendment rights to shout the bastards down.

Sounds like a proper solution, but what about the clubs and bags of piss?

Tom Ligon wrote: It should never take a President the better part of a week to finally get this right. And I notice it finally happened after Bannon was booted.

He got it right the first day when he said both sides were bad. Yes, both sides were bad, but the media only want to focus on the side they can portray as "the right", (totalitarian government is a left-wing ideology) and completely ignore the very bad things done by the people on the left.


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‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Diogenes »

Tom Ligon wrote:Trump is President, of the whole country, and needs to act like it.


Trump is President of the whole country, and the Media need to act like it.


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https://politicallyofftarget.com/compar ... ne-covers/



There is a massive propaganda system out there trying to manipulate public opinion so as to influence elections.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by choff »

The Nazis/KKK, and maybe one or two other groups are hate groups, but then there were also ordinary conservatives protesting the statue removal, and they had a permit, unlike Antifa. All evidence is that Antifa came fully intent upon, and initiated the violence, the mayor deliberately ordered a police stand down, then a state of emergency with the police forcing the permit holders to run the gauntlet. What could possibly go wrong?

There's a slippery slope of banning free speech going on. Try reading James Damore's memo, and then explain why he should be fired for promoting stereotypes. Plenty of conservative Youtuber's are having content censored and lumped in with hate groups, some of them are Jewish! At one event in Canada, Professor Jordan Peterson and Gad Saad(holocaust survivor) were blocked from speaking, and the SJW's know he's Jewish. They fully support the Palestinian cause and oppose Israel.

https://medium.com/@Cernovich/full-jame ... 39f3d2d05f
CHoff

Diogenes
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Diogenes »

choff wrote:The Nazis/KKK, and maybe one or two other groups are hate groups, but then there were also ordinary conservatives protesting the statue removal, and they had a permit, unlike Antifa. All evidence is that Antifa came fully intent upon, and initiated the violence, the mayor deliberately ordered a police stand down, then a state of emergency with the police forcing the permit holders to run the gauntlet. What could possibly go wrong?

There's a slippery slope of banning free speech going on. Try reading James Damore's memo, and then explain why he should be fired for promoting stereotypes. Plenty of conservative Youtuber's are having content censored and lumped in with hate groups, some of them are Jewish! At one event in Canada, Professor Jordan Peterson and Gad Saad(holocaust survivor) were blocked from speaking, and the SJW's know he's Jewish. They fully support the Palestinian cause and oppose Israel.

https://medium.com/@Cernovich/full-jame ... 39f3d2d05f


The vast majority of people on the right (especially Christians) support Israel and the Jewish people. The home of anti-semitism in this country and for that matter the entire world, is on the totalitarian socialist left.

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‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Tom Ligon
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Contact:

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Tom Ligon »

There is a proposal now for removing the names of Confederate heroes from military bases, with the proposed rule being to not name military installations after people who have taken up arms against the US.

At the risk of being Trumped, I question this on both moral and military history grounds. At the moment, in Afghanistan, we have an outpost called FOB Geronimo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_O ... e_Geronimo

A quick scan of base names suggested a few in the US that might be named for Indians. There are definitely cities, counties, and states named for them. If Stone Mountain must be eliminated, what about the Crazy Horse Monument? https://crazyhorsememorial.org/

There is something to be said for honoring a worthy opponent.

If it were my choice, I'd recycle Nathan Forrest's statue for scrap. Worthy opponent in the war ("get there firstest with the mostest"), loathsome terrorist afterwards. I'd do the same for Sherman and Sheridan, not just for their scorched earth policy in Georgia, but because they were responsible for most of the more notorious Indian Wars. Custer was their boy. They ignored treaties (The Law). The Nez Perce episode (Chief Joseph's band) was entirely of their making as they ordered that group onto the reservation even though they had clearly not signed a treaty turning over their land. Rename their bases ... they dishonored the nation.

Meanwhile, the tactics of the Nez Perce were so good, they're taught at West Point to this day.

Rommel was a Nazi, but he was implicated in a plot to try to kill Hitler, and he wrote a great book on tank tactics that Patton studied. "Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!" I'd say, no statue, no base name, but an enemy you can respect.

I agree that Google squashed free speech in the James Damore case. Universities have been struggling to get this right, as well. Abuses get even worse in your typical high school. The political leanings of educators may have changed from conservative to liberal in my lifetime, but the mind control game is the same ... some things cannot be said. They're just different things now. While raised as a Christian, I thought requiring participation in a Christian prayer was wrong in a public school, just as suppressing the right of a student to express their own belief is wrong. This struggle has been going on since the 1st Amendment was passed, and people have a hard time fully embracing it when beliefs they don't like are involved. Voltaire never actually said, ""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." But he should have.

Diogenes
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Diogenes »

For lack of a better place to put this, I might as well put it here.


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Also:

Antifa Declares: ‘F**k Your F***ing Constitution, We’re Here to Punch Nazis’



This way I can find it again later if I should need it in a discussion.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

choff
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by choff »

Rommel also visited a British field hospital at a time when the lines were scrambly, had medicine delivered to same. Conditions were so harsh in the desert, some preferred the combat to the sandstorms that interrupted it.
CHoff

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by choff »

There's talk of removing George Washington and Ben Franklin monuments because they owned slaves. Meanwhile, only a small conservative bunch protested a Lenin statue demanding it be taken down. SJW's are so stupid they'd probably attack a John Brown statue if they could find it.

As for the schools, generation Z are set to be the most conservative since WW2. They get the progressive ideology shoved down their throats all day long, the projectile vomit will come flying back out very soon. My job, I tour through schools, the boys are put on Ritalin for acting too male, then they're told they're the bad rapey gender oppressing the girls . They see two kinds of posters on the school walls. The first have some jock athlete or cop with a dirty look and accusatory finger pointing at them, saying, "Only you can prevent domestic violence/rape." The other sort of poster has some trans kid on the front and the motto, "he needs love too", or "he deserves respect". Message is clean, you can be heterosexual and everybody will hate you, or have reassignment surgery with extra special status.
CHoff

Tom Ligon
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Tom Ligon »

choff wrote:Rommel also visited a British field hospital at a time when the lines were scrambly, had medicine delivered to same. Conditions were so harsh in the desert, some preferred the combat to the sandstorms that interrupted it.
That seems to be true, tho' it may have been Kiwi's rather than the Brits. Reports are he stumbled across them, but was allowed to leave unhindered, and returned with much-needed supplies. It would be interesting to track down the stories of individuals involved, to see if any of them ever reciprocated, perhaps giving care to German prisoners.

Looking that up, I stumbled across these clips:
My grandfather was a British officer, and a tanker. His tank was knocked out and taken POW by Rommel's forces during WWII (north Africa campaign), and met Rommel on several occasions.

When I was a boy he used to tell me that Rommel was not a Nazi, that he was a German officer; despite a deep rooted hatred for all things Nazi, he would never allow an ill word be spoken of Rommel.
Saw a show about a tank battle in Desert Storm. Some captured Iraqi tank crew were in an M2 Bradley being transported and there was a picture of Rommel taped up inside.

One of them asked why they had a picture of one of their enemies hanging up. The reply was, "If you read any of his books you probably wouldn't be our prisoner."


(From a Reddit site called TIL) https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/ ... f_several/

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by choff »

CHoff

williatw
Posts: 1912
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Location: Ohio

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:There is a massive propaganda system out there trying to manipulate public opinion so as to influence elections.

The only upstart is that the bias is becoming so obvious that many are starting to finally notice. Hillary would likely have gotten the same treatment; her past (& future) scandals forgotten in a massive "girl power", "you go girl" propaganda blitz. Not particularly bothered at this point by the stories about Trump's alleged polls numbers hitting "record lows"; after all the same polls predicted a Hillary landslide. Curious how everyone is trying to hang the Charlottesville riots on Trump while making no mention of say Ferguson:



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Demonstrators flooded on to the streets of Ferguson after the verdict, with several buildings set alight



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Police were heavily armed but say they did not use their firearms during the rioting overnight



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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30190224


As if they never happened...and if they did had nothing to do with Obama; unlike the Charlottesville riots; which Trump owns.

Betruger
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Betruger »

Diogenes wrote:
Tom Ligon wrote:Trump is President, of the whole country, and needs to act like it.


Trump is President of the whole country, and the Media need to act like it.
They have no such obligation as a president does. Only a fool parrots propaganda, from bad news or from excuse for president like trump.

Tom Ligon wrote:The political leanings of educators may have changed from conservative to liberal in my lifetime, but the mind control game is the same ... some things cannot be said. They're just different things now. While raised as a Christian, I thought requiring participation in a Christian prayer was wrong in a public school, just as suppressing the right of a student to express their own belief is wrong. This struggle has been going on since the 1st Amendment was passed, and people have a hard time fully embracing it when beliefs they don't like are involved. Voltaire never actually said, ""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." But he should have.
Exactly what went thru my mind as a first time US high school student 1.5 years from graduation. That, and that when your students know the Constitution less well than such a foreigner, your electorate might be handicapped.

America may become a case study of why politics are a dead end. To Homo Sapiens c. early XXI century anyway. And meaning in too-large communities and as rep. democracy, too.

Curing aging and getting off this rock are the only true long term solutions to this cabin fever. For a wiser and healthier population, with a lot of lifetime and/or tech enabled intellectual (meaning base hardware, not ideological in any specific way) counter-balancing to the runaway complication of livelihood that people simply do not have the time and smarts to contend with, anymore.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

Tom Ligon
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Tom Ligon »

Betruger wrote: Exactly what went thru my mind as a first time US high school student 1.5 years from graduation. That, and that when your students know the Constitution less well than such a foreigner, your electorate might be handicapped.
Curious, isn't it. Citizenship is a birthright, so you are within your rights to be ignorant of the Constitution and history.

But for a foreigner to become a citizen, they have to learn this stuff.

Some people on this forum seem to really dislike immigrants. I see immigrants who entered lawfully and are pursuing citizenship as possibly the best Americans.

Whereas Americans who are willfully ignorant of, say, the difference between Articles and Amendments of the Constitution are the problem.

Anyone who gets off this rock to start a new civilization is ... an immigrant. They'll have to know history and be ready to build something new, informed by the mistakes of the past, and caring greatly about being a part of being smarter.

Betruger
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Betruger »

Yes. And being born in the US, it's too easy to never know first-hand how much of a privilege it is. You probably meant that too, but it is near or at the heart of what's wrong with the USA. Taking it for granted.

At the time I simultaneously couldn't believe how complacent they (all but 1 or 2 per class) were about it, and could guess it was almost unavoidable consequence of not having lived in 2+ other countries as more than tourist. Because the first country someone visits usually just makes it a home/abroad false dichotomy. Instead it's a many dimensional permutation of the same human condition; and the USA ought to be the best one by far by virtue of the work of its Founding Fathers.
Anyone who gets off this rock to start a new civilization is ... an immigrant. They'll have to know history and be ready to build something new, informed by the mistakes of the past, and caring greatly about being a part of being smarter.
Yes. If we could have 1 USA, why not have many more? Just as we ought to have many more Earths and Marses.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

Tom Ligon
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Post by Tom Ligon »

Views of a couple of my immigrant friends here ...

A Ukrainian engineer told me, rather giddily, that he loves this country because it has no corruption. I gave him an incredulous stare and challenged that with some examples. He shut me down. Here, we don't accept it. We root it out. We'll put Congressmen in jail for it. There, it was accepted business practice. And another part of his joy is that he is a private pilot now.

A friend who was a Christian refugee from Lebanon in their bloody 4-sided civil war is now a die-hard (literally) survivalist. He thinks we take our safety for granted at our peril, and recounts having to shoot a long-time neighbor dead in order to protect his family when that neighbor decided to kill all the infidels.

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