Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

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williatw
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby williatw » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:17 pm

Tom Ligon wrote:So, does this mean you only want to hear one side, and you are as likely to listen to Russian trolls as reliable sources?


You mean Tom "Russian trolls" like the one the former MI6 agent got from such a source about supposedly (among other things) Trump and prostitute(s) in a Moscow hotel? Let's see, said dossier was acquired and sold to Hillary's team/DNC; wouldn't that be like an example of "Russian collusion" to influence the outcome of the presidential election? The very thing Trump is being investigated for? Then given to the Obama administration and used as an excuse to authorize a FISA warrant monitor (wiretap) of Trump and associates; all the while Obama and his people were suggesting (along with most of the media) that Trump was "crazy", paranoid" etc. for thinking that Trump towers was being "wiretapped". Hope very much the Republicans have the balls to leak that four page memorandum; should make interesting reading.



http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... lance-memo

Tom Ligon
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:45 pm

williatw wrote:
Tom Ligon wrote:So, does this mean you only want to hear one side, and you are as likely to listen to Russian trolls as reliable sources?


You mean Tom "Russian trolls" like the one the former MI6 agent got from such a source about supposedly (among other things) Trump and prostitute(s) in a Moscow hotel?


Yeah, that, and Pizzagate, which a few forum participants here seem to have swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

Personally, my negative opinion of Trump comes from an unimpeachably direct source: Donald J. Trump. I only have to read and listen to his own words and I can form my own opinions. Even Diogenes has pegged him as an infantile blowhard with serious personality disorders. I don't need Russian Trolls, CNN Trolls, HuffPost Trolls, Fox Trolls, or Breitbart Trolls to tell me what to think.

As for that Russian prostitute thing, it is an amusing idea, if unproven. Is it credible? I dunno, ask Stormy Daniels. Or Melania.

Oh, and one more reason to despise Trump. Yet another (been several a day lately) spam posts from him in my e-fail in basket:

Tom,

I don’t care how many lying books they write.

I don’t care how many witch hunts they launch.

I will never stop fighting for you. I will never let them silence you. Nothing will distract us from our agenda. Nothing can yank us down into the gutters with the fake news tabloids disguised as the “mainstream media.”

But I need you enlisted in our fight too. Will you go down in the books and renew your Sustaining Membership for the 2018 year?


Followed by a request for money. I have no idea if this is actually his effort or just some determined spammer looking for money, but HELL NO!

Betruger
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Betruger » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:05 pm

williatw wrote:
Diogenes wrote:Good effort, but pointless I think. You can't reason someone out of a position which they weren't reasoned into.
People want to believe what they want to believe, and showing them evidence that contradicts what they want to believe just annoys them.


Well Dio....looks like you called it:


Betruger wrote:Man o man. He is just the second coming. Surely nothing could outweigh such a list of miracles from such a divinely inspired, single handed effort.

Like he called Trump being a genius. Next you can justify "Dio"'s homophobia. This is like reading from Schopenhauer's Art of Being Right. Only you missed that it's a critique and not a gameplan.

You can't grok a clear bit of sarcasm specifically pointed at your blind trump fanaticism, so unsurprisingly you strawman that sarcasm into yet another rhetorical shuffle. Trump betrays the values of his office, on camera? Trot out a distraction about his opposition being corrupt. Someone calls your zealotry for what it is, and it's them the believers.
So tell me this then. Believe what? That Trump is no good? As Tom said you don't even need to be a believer. Trump has made that exceptionally easy for anyone who always was indiscriminately skeptical and reserved; by Trump being so unconditionally wrong, regardless one's position on the political spectrum.


Goes right along with MSimon's divine inspiration that Obama would never win. "Control freak"

Trump is disgracing the presidency's standards. While you fall over backwards juggling for any propaganda to justify his disgrace. If having someone in office as president who literally goes to the opposite of the spirit of the office, is not enough to dissent, then what is? Fanning the flames of racism and homophobia and sexual exploitation, and not only misleading public discourse with the usual political dancing act but actually going full retard with Soviet like propaganda... Saying it's 1984 all over again isn't hyperbole.

What I suspect is you, like Diogenes, have insider bias. You are either American or North American, undoubtedly westerner, and have never known life outside that sphere. You think you can do no wrong. You think someone like Trump owns the world. Hell, look at this thread's title.

You cannot see the forest for the trees.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

Diogenes
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Diogenes » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:03 pm

Tom Ligon wrote:
Diogenes wrote:I wouldn't know. I get my news from various websites around the net. Some of them function as veritable "Bussard Collectors" of information.


Bussard collectors pick up only lightweight stuff of one polarity (in his later years, he concluded they should be just electrostatic). But otherwise they are not picky.

So, does this mean you only want to hear one side, and you are as likely to listen to Russian trolls as reliable sources?



If I wanted to hear just one side, i'd watch the regular news networks. I want to hear the news that is routinely ignored, censored, or manipulated by the regular networks. (example)

Often times you have to go to British news sources to find out what is going on here in the US. Also the "Russian trolls" meme is just another example of fake news.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Diogenes » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:24 pm

Tom Ligon wrote:
Yeah, that, and Pizzagate, which a few forum participants here seem to have swallowed hook, line, and sinker.



Presumably you refer to me, but I have never said I believe it. I simply asked you how it had been debunked. I stopped posting about the issue because the stuff I had found to back up my point is just too disgusting to post on this website. It would probably have been deleted if I had posted it.


But this thing called "Russian Trolls" is another matter. Presumably you would have us believe that "Russian Trolls" convinced the sane portion of the country to elect Trump. I think the sane people of the nation were going to do that anyway.





Tom Ligon wrote:
Personally, my negative opinion of Trump comes from an unimpeachably direct source: Donald J. Trump. I only have to read and listen to his own words and I can form my own opinions. Even Diogenes has pegged him as an infantile blowhard with serious personality disorders. I don't need Russian Trolls, CNN Trolls, HuffPost Trolls, Fox Trolls, or Breitbart Trolls to tell me what to think.



Yes, I was not a Trump fan when this all started, but I have to say I have been quite pleased with how he has been handling most things, and I am now taking the Scott Adams approach to looking at his behavior.

I have always believed Trumps primary motivation is his own ego, but so long as it serves what I consider to be the best interests of the United States, I am okay with it.


Couple of examples.

Iran’s Fast Boats Stop Harassing U.S. Navy, Baffling Military

America First: European CEOs Go One By One To Tell Trump They Are Investing Billions Back In The US
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Diogenes » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:32 pm

Betruger wrote:Trump is disgracing the presidency's standards.



No.

After Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, there are no standards. The two worst examples of human garbage to ever sit in the white house have excused virtually all subsequent miscreants.


As the alternative was that corrupt and psycho Nazi witch hag, we should not even be talking about "standards" in regards to the presidency.


Image
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby williatw » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:50 pm

Tom Ligon wrote:As for that Russian prostitute thing, it is an amusing idea, if unproven.


But my question to you Tom is this; if Trump's people (Donald Trump Jr, Paul Manaford etc.) were guilty of "collaborating", "treason" whatever merely because they had that now infamous meeting with the Russian lawyer, the one where she claimed (before the meeting) to have dirt on Hillary Clinton, than why isn't the DNC/Clinton camp guilty of "collaborating", "collusion" with Russia by purchasing the dossier from the ex MI6 agent who obviously obtained it from a Russian source? Even if you maintain that said dossier is bogus, i.e. "pizzagate"? Furthermore how can the Obama administration justify using it as an excuse to FISA surveillance Trump and his people if they believed it to be bogus? Either they didn't think it was bogus or they didn't care; they (the Obama administration) just wanted an excuse to "wiretap" the Trump campaign.

paperburn1
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:01 pm

Does anyone on this board really know what Trump is guilty of by law?
Besides being a blowhard and a jerk?
Lets look at this shall we?
Collaborating or Collaboration with Russians., no laws as such are even on the books for this item.

Obstruction of justice, This one is very hard to prove because you say for certain what was on the presidents mind when he fired the FBI director or any investigator. Any valid excuse would work to nullify any obstruction by releasing prosecutors. But so far, there’s no clear evidence Trump did any of those things. The potential obstruction case against the president, to the best of our knowledge, focuses instead on:
•Various inappropriate-sounding behind-the-scenes requests Trump made to law enforcement officials about the Flynn investigation
•FBI Director James Comey’s firing
•And perhaps the misleading public statement about his son Don Jr’s meeting with a Russian lawyer that the president reportedly helped craft
Mueller probably needs substantially more and more damning evidence than we currently know of to justify an obstruction of justice finding.

This next item is a huge problem, Muller can not charge Trump or his associates with anything. His job is to submit his recommendations to the DOJ and they decide to go forward or ignore it entirely.
Still, there’s an even bigger problem: It’s not clear if prosecutors even can indict a sitting president. The Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has long taken the position that they can’t. The matter has never been tested in court. Still, this means that any indictment of Trump would be legally dubious and enormously controversial — likely involving a Supreme Court battle.

Like Nixon and Clinton the only real crime they have a chance to hit him with is lying to a federal investigator , this would need to be by direct statement to an investigator in an interview. Only then would they have anything to hammer trump with and this little gem would be handled by congress. Whether a Republican Congress would take action against Trump, regardless of Mueller’s conclusions, is anyone’s guess
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

choff
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby choff » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:50 am

My understanding is that all the FBI has to do is accuse someone, and when they attempt to defend themselves they charge them with obstruction of justice for it.
CHoff

williatw
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby williatw » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:36 am

Diogenes wrote:As the alternative was that corrupt and psycho Nazi witch hag, we should not even be talking about "standards" in regards to the presidency.




Clinton thanks ‘activist bitches’ in bizarre video

Image

Hillary Clinton loves you, bitches.

The former presidential candidate and secretary of state sent out a video message “directed to activist bitches supporting bitches,” as she put it, via Twitter Friday night.
“Hey everyone, I just wanted to say thanks,” Clinton said into a cellphone camera, seated at a red banquette in what appeared to be a restaurant.

“Thanks for your feminism, for your activism, and all I can hope is you keep up the really important, good work,” she said.

At the urging of an off-camera companion, she added with a laugh: “And let me just say, this is directed to the activist bitches supporting bitches. So let’s go.”
Clinton is known as a careful speaker in public — but numerous insiders have described her as potty-mouthed behind closed doors.

The video was posted by Huffington Post commentator Alex Mohajer, who told Mashable that Clinton was merely giving a shout-out to a group with the literal name “Activist Bitches Supporting Bitches.”



It emerged on the heels of a report about an allegation of sexual harassment within the staff of Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign.

According to the report, Clinton insisted on retaining her faith outreach adviser, Burns Strider, after a female staffer accused him of touching her inappropriately and sending sexually suggestive emails.

Later on Friday, Clinton responded to the story with a tweet claiming the victim’s concerns were “taken seriously and addressed” at the time.

“I was dismayed when it occurred, but was heartened the young woman came forward,” Clinton posted on Twitter.

“I called her today to tell her how proud I am of her and to make sure she knows what all women should: we deserve to be heard.”

But Strider kept his job at Clinton’s direction, according to the New York Times story — even though her campaign manager recommend he be fired — and the accuser was transferred to another office.



https://nypost.com/2018/01/27/clinton-t ... rre-video/

williatw
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby williatw » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:04 am

Scott Adams explains why NY Times thinks Donald McGahn is the President of the United States


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPOzFTVQLSc

williatw
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby williatw » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:11 pm

Clinton, Podesta And Others In Senate Crosshairs Over Dossier; Given Two Weeks To Respond

GOP Congressional investigators have written six letters to individuals or entities involved or thought to be involved in the funding, creation or distribution of the salacious and unverified "Trump-Russia dossier" believed to have been inappropriately used by the FBI, DOJ and Obama Administration in an effort to undermine Donald Trump as both a candidate and President of the United States.

Senators Chuck Grassley (R-IA) and Lindsey Graham (R-SCS) wrote six Judiciary Committee letters requesting information from: John Podesta, Donna Brazille, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Robbie Mook, the DNC, and Hillary For America Chief Strategist Joel Benenson.



Image

A brief refresher of facts and allegations:
•The DNC and Hillary Clinton's PAC was revealed by The Washington Post to have paid opposition research firm Fusion GPS for the creation of a dossier that would be harmful to then-candidate Donald Trump.
•Fusion commissioned former UK spy Christopher Steele to assemble the dossier - which is comprised of a series of memos relying largely on Russian government sources to make allegations against Donald Trump and his associates.
•According to court filings, Fusion also worked with disgraced DOJ official Bruce Ohr, and hired his CIA-linked wife, Nellie Ohr, to assist in the smear campaign against Trump. Bruce Ohr was demoted from his senior DOJ position after it was revealed that he met with Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson as well as Christopher Steele - then tried to cover it up.
•Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta, denied under oath to the Senate Intelligence Committee that he knew about the dossier's funding, while Clinton's former spokesman, Brian Fallon, told CNN that Hillary likely had no idea who paid for it either.
•Current and past leaders of the DNC, including Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) also denied knowledge of the document's funding.
•Podesta met with Fusion co-founder Glenn Simpson the day after the Trump-Russia dossier was published by Buzzfeed News.




https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01- ... ks-respond

williatw
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby williatw » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:12 am

Will the FISA memo turn into Obama's Watergate?
By Sebastian Gorka, opinion contributor — 02/08/18 05:15 PM EST


We already know that during the 2016 presidential election, the FBI and Justice Department acquired a secret warrant to spy on U.S. citizen Carter Page, a volunteer adviser to the Trump campaign. The warrant application was based on an “opposition research” file paid for by the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton through her lawyer. This fact, that the file was paid for by the candidate and party running against Donald Trump, was not disclosed by the FBI or Justice Department to the secret FISA court judge to whom that warrant application was made. It was also never disclosed that the author of the file was a former British intelligence officer with close ties to Moscow, who had been deemed by the FBI to be “unreliable” and who was known — at the highest levels of the Justice Department — to be “desperate” to ensure that Trump never became president. In other words, the FBI and Justice Department knowingly hid exculpatory evidence from the surveillance court in order to be able to start spying on a member of the Trump team.





Forty-six years ago, a group of hamfisted burglars bungled the task of bugging the Democratic National Committee’s offices in the Watergate building in Washington D.C. Two years later, Richard Nixon resigned as president a result of the failed cover-up that ensued. Although Barack Obama
is no longer president, the abuses that occurred within the FBI and Justice Department under his watch already have the potential to eclipse the Watergate scandal in their historic significance and damage done to American government.

​A Beltway adage ​has it that “it’s always the cover-up that’ll get you, not the original transgression.” Often, this proves to be true, especially in the case of Nixon, but even more recently, given the impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton, which were over perjury and obstruction of justice, not actual abuse of power with a 22-year-old intern.


However, with the recent declassification of the Nunes and Grassley memos from the House and Senate, in this case the putative crimes are far more serious than a failed attempt to bug the private office of a political party. These crimes have the potential to shake American confidence in otherwise prestigious institutions like the FBI, and the sanctity of our constitutional rights as citizens, especially those afforded by the Fourth Amendment, specifically protection “against unreasonable searches and seizures” or warrants being issued without “probable cause.”

Despite the months it has taken for the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and Senate Judiciary Committee to investigate the matters before them and declassify their initial findings, we are still just at the beginning of knowing how broad and deep a scandal we face. Nevertheless, the facts already laid out by the memos are shocking enough by themselves and, specifically, in the consequences they may have for all Americans.

We already know that during the 2016 presidential election, the FBI and Justice Department acquired a secret warrant to spy on U.S. citizen Carter Page, a volunteer adviser to the Trump campaign. The warrant application was based on an “opposition research” file paid for by the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton through her lawyer. This fact, that the file was paid for by the candidate and party running against Donald Trump, was not disclosed by the FBI or Justice Department to the secret FISA court judge to whom that warrant application was made.

It was also never disclosed that the author of the file was a former British intelligence officer with close ties to Moscow, who had been deemed by the FBI to be “unreliable” and who was known — at the highest levels of the Justice Department — to be “desperate” to ensure that Trump never became president. In other words, the FBI and Justice Department knowingly hid exculpatory evidence from the surveillance court in order to be able to start spying on a member of the Trump team.

Add to this what we now know about the contents of the file compiled by Christopher Steele, that its salacious accusations came from Russian officials and, in part, as Trey Gowdy has intimated, from none other than Sidney Blumenthal, the closest of Clinton’s confidantes, and the full scenario appears undeniable. One candidate for president managed to leverage elements of the federal law enforcement and intelligence communities to illegally spy on the campaign running against her.

If we add to this the countless anti-Trump text messages that have been released between key members of the FBI team investigating both the Clinton “servergate” case and the accusations of “Russia collusion” by Trump associates, and it is easy to understand why half a dozen senior FBI agents and Justice Department officials have been “relieved” or reassigned in recent weeks.

There is a special reason why America never created a domestic spying agency, even after Sept. 11, 2001, when the calls for such a body were loudest. There is something in the genesis of our republic that rejects the idea of permanent “political police” surveilling our fellow countrymen. That is why, ironically, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was originally created in 1978 in response to the abuses of the Nixon years.

Spying on Americans was to be sporadic and done on a case by case basis, with each target’s approval having to be justified in front of a special FISA judge. When political motivations lie behind such approval and that fact is hidden from the authority which grants it, all Americans are endangered. Working for a mainstream political candidate must never be the metric for whether the state can spy on you, whether you are a Republican or a Democrat. That way lies tyranny.

The fact that the political left seems so comfortable with this scenario, or wishes to minimize and deride these initial findings, is the strangest part of the story so far. For decades, from Watergate through to the Pentagon Papers, and right up to Army Pvt. Bradley Manning, it is the left that has perennially demanded full disclosure and made resistance to the abuses of government power a central plank of its message.

Are crimes only crimes if a right-wing administration commits them? With perjury and obstruction of justice having already been demonstrated under the Obama administration, all that is left now is to see whether the Justice Department still wears a blindfold.






http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/ ... -watergate

Diogenes
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Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Diogenes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:46 pm

williatw wrote:Will the FISA memo turn into Obama's Watergate?


http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/ ... -watergate




Compared to this, Watergate was a big nothing.


This was originally from Forbes, but they have pulled it. It now remains as an archived file.


Biased FBI and DOJ Officials Broke The Law And Tried To Decide The Election - an Annotated Timeline


Image
Thomas Del Beccaro Contributor


There can be no question, at this point, that certain higher ups in the FBI and the DOJ did not want Hillary to be indicted and did not want Donald Trump to become President. Those efforts were not entirely independent of each other.

Below is a timeline of events – abbreviated though it is – that makes it rather plain that the FBI and DOJ were not investigating potential crimes objectively.

Indeed, they were committing crimes during the process in aid of their preferred outcomes.



http://archive.is/ILLkz
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump

Postby Diogenes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:17 pm

I Should Know: Dems' Intel Abuse Is Reminiscent of My Work for Ceausescu

Image
By Ion Mihai Pacepa February 9, 2018

Image

Seen from my vantage point, the four-page FISA abuse memo authored by Rep. Devin Nunes is proof that former president Barack Obama and Democratic Party leaders wanted to transform the U.S. into a Russian-style intelligence dictatorship -- and the FBI into a KGB-style instrument for rewriting American history by smearing its capitalist politicians.

They say that history repeats itself. If you have lived two lives, as I have done, you have a good chance of seeing a re-enactment with your own eyes.

Forty years ago, I paid with two death sentences from my native Romania. I had publicly revealed that Ceausescu's highly praised independence from Moscow was in fact an undercover intelligence dictatorship, designed to transform Romania into a monument to him by annihilating his critics and enemies. "I'll give you a name, and you'll build a criminal record for him," Ceausescu used to tell the head of the Securitate -- his Marxist version of the FBI. For him, lying was the first step toward stealing and killing.



https://pjmedia.com/mihaipacepa/know-de ... ceausescu/
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —


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