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Stuff in Space
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:03 pm
by krenshala
I thought you folks would find this site interesting.
http://stuffin.space
It displays data pulled daily from space-track.org, and shows it in a nifty WebGL 3d (javascript) display.
From this, you can really appreciate how much stuff is just floating around our planet.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:50 pm
by ladajo
Fun link. Seen others like it.
Maybe this is a clue to finding intelligent life on other worlds. Looking for a metal albedo signature.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:00 am
by Tom Ligon
But don't you think truly intelligent life would manage the junk?
There as the bro-haha a few months back, the speculation that a pattern of light dropouts around one star might mean they had a Ringworld under construction.
The methodology required for detecting small bodies orbiting planets around other stars will require better ability to image planets. So far we've managed to get a few hot pixels, but nothing like the resolution needed. But the approach is straightforward ... build multiple big telescopes in space.
Which might be some of the more conspicuous artifacts we could look for.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:55 am
by paperburn1
1
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:57 am
by paperburn1
While a Dyson sphere is problematic and most likely undoable for many reasons there is a concept out there called a Dyson swarm.
The Dyson Swarm is made up of one-kilometer (0.6 mi) solar panels that orbit the Sun in hundreds of stable criss-cross patterns.
https://futurism.com/could-humanity-eve ... on-sphere/
video at the bottom of article.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:43 pm
by ladajo
Tom Ligon wrote:But don't you think truly intelligent life would manage the junk?
There as the bro-haha a few months back, the speculation that a pattern of light dropouts around one star might mean they had a Ringworld under construction.
The methodology required for detecting small bodies orbiting planets around other stars will require better ability to image planets. So far we've managed to get a few hot pixels, but nothing like the resolution needed. But the approach is straightforward ... build multiple big telescopes in space.
Which might be some of the more conspicuous artifacts we could look for.
Unless they are dumb-asses not so dissimilar to us. My thought is along the lines that we are pretty ok at guestimating planetary composition based on data collected (mass, position, size...), which includes albedo/reflectivity information. I don't think it a far leap, nor a far term in the future to use this data to look for higher metal based reflectivities than expected. Especially in spectrums related to space-hardware type metals. Higher than normal metal could indicate intelligent species efforts. Unless they are tree-hugging organic lovers and created organically based ships and such... or hive based snot slinging bug monsters using chitin... or...
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:24 pm
by paperburn1
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:02 pm
by ladajo
Hive minds make for a lot of snot to fling...
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:37 pm
by Tom Ligon
This beekeeper suspects Heinlein and Hollywood have missed the truth about hive minds entirely. Bees don't have a "hive mind," just 60,000 intelligent decision-makers all motivated to do some common good for their own home. They just reach a consensus. If we could learn to ....
My understanding is that we have found a few planets were we can manage about a pixel of resolution. Those pixels can be seen changing color. The color changes may indicate oceans.
A swarm of satellites would be more uniform in color, and harder to detect. However, there is a high probablility that they would be shiny. If flashes can be discerned, a bit of geometry might show that we're dealing with orbiting shiny bits. At certain positions and angles you might get reflected sunlight. They should not produce these flashes when in the umbra of the planet. So in parts of the orbit, the disk of the planet should not produce flashes but there might be a halo of them around it.
This still requires that one be able to resolve a planet from its near-by space. Another order of magnitude of resolution, or two, may get us there.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:46 pm
by krenshala
Tom Ligon wrote:Another order of magnitude of resolution, or two, may get us there.
And at the rate we're going, that might not take too long.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:11 am
by paperburn1
krenshala wrote:Tom Ligon wrote:Another order of magnitude of resolution, or two, may get us there.
And at the rate we're going, that might not take too long.
We were just talking about this
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40567036
6.5 meter mirror that should make another magnitude of resolution
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:42 pm
by ladajo
I don't think it a far leap, nor a far term in the future to use this data to look for higher metal based reflectivities than expected.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:04 pm
by Tom Ligon
One of its most amusing moments is when Nobel Prize winner and chief scientist John Mather considers whether Webb's optics could sense the heat energy of a bumblebee at a distant equivalent to that of the Moon. It could, he concludes: "You have to take a time exposure to get something that sensitive; the bumblebee shouldn't move. The bumblebee has to hold still, but of course the most distant Universe looks as though it is standing still."
You may laugh, but I've imaged the body heat of bees many times. Honey bees are quite warm-blooded. They typically heat their thoraxes to 102 F for flight. They use muscle energy to maintain their broodnest at about 95F, and overwinter in clusters (not unlike Emperor penguins do) maintained at about 85F. Honey bees never hibernate, and rarely allow their bodies to cool to ambient.
Honeys show up easily on my thermal imager. Imaged when they take off, they make streaks that look like bottle rockets launching.
Bumbles heat their thorax muscles to similar temperatures for flight, but will drop to near ambient when resting.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:37 pm
by Taliesin
I have heard that bees body heat is also used to defend their hive. If an intruder inters the hive, the bees will surround the intruder and raise their body temperature, effectively baking the intruder in a bee oven.
Re: Stuff in Space
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:11 pm
by Tom Ligon
Taliesin wrote:I have heard that bees body heat is also used to defend their hive. If an intruder inters the hive, the bees will surround the intruder and raise their body temperature, effectively baking the intruder in a bee oven.
With the additional advantage that the bees live thru this. If they sting, they die. Guard bees balling a wasp can reach 46.5 C, nearly 116 F.