Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:42 pm
Doesn't the Tesla coup go 200+ miles now?
a discussion forum for Polywell fusion
https://talk-polywell.org/bb/
The folks in the city paid for their infrastructure on their own, then paid a massive proportion of the first suburban ring's infrastructure because their "property" was more valuable and was thus more highly taxed. Which increased the cost (not value but sales cost) of the city while the first ring got some value. The the city paid a massive portion of the infrastructure costs for the next ring, etc. etc. etc.GIThruster wrote:Sorry but you've got your story a bit backward. Mass transit is what gets subsidized. Auto users in the suburbs are who get taxed.
Amtrak hasn't operated in the black since it was nationalized four decades ago.
As it was explained to me, the subisies are fairly well hidden. An example I was told (about 30 years ago, so it may no longer be true) was that "unsuccessful wells" could be written off a greater than actual cost. It was an inducement toward exploritory drilling. So it became common practice for companies to drill just short of where they almost KNEW there would be oil, take the write-off, then several years later decide to re-investigate that well and "SHAZAM, what do you know, there was oil here after all. Ain't it lucky we tried again!" If your major cost is underwritten by the government in the form of tax credits, that is a subsidy, even if there is no money flowing from the government to the company.GIThruster wrote:I'm sorry but you just will need to convince me of your facts since I did a study of this years ago and found no such thing as subsidies to gas companies.
Suburbia exists for many reasons beyond oil subsidies. Primary among them is tax paid infrastructure subsidies. The newest ring is always subsidized by all the rings inside it, which started with the city proper. Make suburbia pay its own way, and it will fade away, after it sh*ts a brick.clonan wrote:Yes, roughly the time the heavy subsidies for oil companies began which drove down the price of gas. These subsidies include direct payments, reduced leasing costs legal protections and of course military support in dangerous areas.GIThruster wrote:Sorry but you've got your story a bit backward. Mass transit is what gets subsidized. Auto users in the suburbs are who get taxed.
Amtrak hasn't operated in the black since it was nationalized four decades ago.
And if it had ended where it began in the 50s as a military road system, it would be fine. The subsidies are the huge costs to add ramps, overpasses, more lanes, HOV lanes, even more lanes, beltways, outer beltways... ad NAUSEUM! Each of these tax supported projects is a subsidy to suburbia, and indirectly to the oil companies. It is a subsidy in that big oil is assured a gigantic demand. And it is so inflexible a demand that they can double the price for periods of time and experience barely a drop in consumption and no loss of customers. There are many ways to subsidize.GIThruster wrote: The Interstate Highway System is not an example of subsidizing auto transport. It is THE example of the world's largest macro-engineering project, designed exclusively as a national defense measure.
What I am suggesting is that if ALL subsidies were removed, the private market would provide the most efficient mode of transit, and any other service. Oh, and as you may have noticed I have stated before, suburbia, the child of tax subsidies, will fade away.clonan wrote: I am suggesting that if we replace oil subsidies with an ecuivalent number of matching subsidies for say solar, wind and polywell than the overal stability of the world will be dramatically improved.
GIThruster wrote: This is all so tiring. I can address each of your points which are all in error but I just don't have the time. Lets just take this at face value.
The US Interstate Highway System is complete. There are NO federal tax dollars being spent on it. Using figures from a couple years ago might be convenient for you, but it is also a hoax.
I guess 695,000,000.00 = 0.00.VDOT COMPLETES OBLIGATION OF ALL VIRGINIA HIGHWAY STIMULUS FUNDING
$695 million in projects obligated by state and federal government one week ahead of legislated deadline
I'm not sure what message you are trying to convey here. If the highway system were user-paid, it wouldn't be a subsidy. If it remains tax paid, it will be a subsidy to SOMEONE. If not oil, then whatever replaces it.MSimon wrote:If we are not going to dismantle our highway system when we get off oil then it is not a subsidy. It is a cost of doing business.
His point was that the National Defense requirements had been met back in the Early 60s, and that the further development was not technically needed for the purpose which the highways were justified using.KitemanSA wrote:GIThruster wrote: This is all so tiring. I can address each of your points which are all in error but I just don't have the time. Lets just take this at face value.
The US Interstate Highway System is complete. There are NO federal tax dollars being spent on it. Using figures from a couple years ago might be convenient for you, but it is also a hoax.I guess 695,000,000.00 = 0.00.VDOT COMPLETES OBLIGATION OF ALL VIRGINIA HIGHWAY STIMULUS FUNDING
$695 million in projects obligated by state and federal government one week ahead of legislated deadline
Interesting math.!
Well yes. If we didn't have so many roads we might actually have good mass transit.If the folks in the city were not required to build the massive gazintas and gozoutas with their tax monies which screw up the private market ability to provide good mass transit, we'd have GREAT mass transit.
If you must choose to misconstrue, I cannot prevent you. But the point I was making was that if city taxpayer subsidized roads that are not needed by cities did not make it impossible to compete, there would be good private mass transit.MSimon wrote:Well yes. If we didn't have so many roads we might actually have good mass transit.If the folks in the city were not required to build the massive gazintas and gozoutas with their tax monies which screw up the private market ability to provide good mass transit, we'd have GREAT mass transit.
You know what I favor though? Letting people do what they want.
All too true. And every time they extend them for another ring of suburbia, the city has to build their own bigger, and bigger and bigger! These huge roads in the city serve only one real purpose, to move folks to and from their subsidied suburban McMansions.MSimon wrote: Except for one minor thing: suburban roads are extensions of city roads.
Very true. Until the petro system came in, towns were usually connected by toll roads, or undeveloped trails thru the contryside. The Pennsylvania Turnpike was a good example of a toll road, IIRC. Indeed, near the turn of the last century, some such toll roads were in the process of being electified. That stopped when the petro-companies bought enough politicians.MSimon wrote: And you will be surprised to learn that no city is required to build roads to connect to any other town.
Nowadays the point is to spread more folks out so that more construction companies / developers can make more money... The only thing most roads connect to these days is subsidized suburbia.MSimon wrote: Of course if roads didn't connect what would be the point?
Well sure. But how can they sell if no one wants what they are selling? Some people want a few hundred square feet of garden. Others like an acre or two. How do you accommodate that in a high rise?Nowadays the point is to spread more folks out so that more construction companies / developers can make more money... The only thing most roads connect to these days is subsidized suburbia.