EM Drive

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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happyjack27
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Re: EM Drive

Postby happyjack27 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:44 pm


Diogenes
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Diogenes » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:19 pm

Old News, but maybe someone wants to look at it.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... weeks.html
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:08 am


Skipjack
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Skipjack » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:59 am

Last edited by Skipjack on Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:13 am

A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Diogenes
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Diogenes » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:55 pm

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

ScottL
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Re: EM Drive

Postby ScottL » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:05 pm

In my opinion, given the data that has come out thus far, there is nothing to this EM Drive. My primary issues are that Shawyer has never shared the full specifications of his build, EagleWorks failed to replicate thrust, and Yang altered her experiment, moving the power source onto the pendulum with the device and got a null result. As we all know a non-published, non-peer-reviewed claim does not equate to a confirmation and that is what we have from Shawyer. As a matter of fact, Shawyer's theories have been ripped apart on both sides of the debate, so even believers don't buy into his justification of thrust. Without specfics of which he could have provided repeatedly over the 20+ years he's had a patent on this device, it looks more akin to a Rossi venture with less charisma. That being said, you have EagleWorks enter the picture with a poorly designed experiment where their control also produced a thrust. These things happen, and I appreciate their effort and openness in that respect. They followed up, however; with a vacuum test with non-vacuum rated equipment (which blew) and obviously those results are useless. In the past few months, Yang updated her experiment to account for Lorenz Forces, grounding issues, etc. She moved the power source onto the pendulum with the device and miraculously all thrust like measurements zeroed. Add to that the endless amount of DYIers who have also had null results (yes, I get their experiments aren't really admissable) and only one clear conclusion emerges.

I'd love to be wrong in my conclusion, but I just don't see it.

birchoff
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Re: EM Drive

Postby birchoff » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:21 am


williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:14 am


djolds1
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Re: EM Drive

Postby djolds1 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:38 pm

Vae Victis

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Re: EM Drive

Postby PNeilson10 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:23 pm

Lets put all the theory bickering aside. Move to commercial reality.

Ask a simple question - how much thrust is needed for a cube sat station keeping use?

Here is a highly touted commercial company's product spec sheet

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5 ... ySheet.pdf

http://www.accion-systems.com/max-1-sma ... product-1/

30 uN thrust

Enough fuel for 10 N s total thrust

75 grams weight

25 cc Volume

Once the fuel is used up - game over

There is your motivation.

A 30 uN EM drive thruster in the 75 grams (low voltage power from the satellite) 25 cc volume class - drawing a few watts has a ready market with reasonable TAM and VC financing available.

Now to revive the theory bickering,

No matter how you look at this - an EM drive is a photon thruster. It generates photons to derive thrust. The bickering is in how the generated photons couple to the quantum vacuum. Since there is very little known about the quantum vacuum how do you couple a generated photon to it? Kind of pointless to bicker - either the EM drive couples to the vacuum more efficiently by bouncing photons than a photon shot off into space does - or not. There is so little known about the vacuum that this experiment is a far better guide to reality than any theory.

If the EM drive couples even a tiny bit more efficiently - this experiment at least yields some information about what the quantum vacuum is and may provide a valuable product with only tens of micro-newtons of thrust.

ScottL
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Re: EM Drive

Postby ScottL » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:45 pm


zapkitty
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Re: EM Drive

Postby zapkitty » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:02 pm

Hoookay... IFLScience says they've received confirmation from the AIAA that the paper has indeed been accepted for the Journal of Propulsion and Power, but that AIAA policy is to not discuss details of a paper until it's actually out.

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/ru ... lly-works/
Last edited by zapkitty on Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Carl White
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Carl White » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:16 pm

Good to hear. My predictions, for what they're worth:

1. The paper won't settle the controversy.

2. Just possibly they'll be able to report reproduction by another group in NASA.

3. Skeptics will continue to attack the experimental apparatus and the signal to noise.

ScottL
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Re: EM Drive

Postby ScottL » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:23 pm



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