Tom Ligon wrote:Trump is not a fool? All evidence to the contrary?
For some reason that darn fool keeps winning.
Tom Ligon wrote:
Even Steve Bannon thinks firing Comey was the biggest mistake in modern political history.
Because the New York Liberal Democrat media would make a firestorm out of it? I've long argued against people citing "media response" as a reason not to do the right thing. From the evidence at the time, and from subsequent evidence that has emerged, Comey needed to be fired.
Tom Ligon wrote:
I have no love or respect for Hillary or Obama, so don't even think I'm trying to defend them or would want them in office. But Trump has been shooting himself in the foot for months. We've all seen the foolishness. I could make a list, but why bother.
I'm not a big Trump fan, and I was never a big Trump supporter prior to the election, but I knew what I was getting when I signed onto the deal. (and more importantly I knew what I was avoiding.) Trump is a brash and entertaining populist with a style of saying all sorts of things about which few of his supporters take him seriously. You can find quotes from him that are all over the place, and he picks fights unnecessarily, but is this stuff shooting him in the foot? Because the media keep citing the polls they keep rigging with their constant harassment of him in their coverage?
I doubt it. If he grants amnesty without having some sort of political counterweight such as constructing the wall, *THAT* would be him shooting himself in the foot.
Tom Ligon wrote:
Diogenes, you have demanded proof from me that Trump has been colluding with the Russians. You deny that there is any evidence to support the idea, except, of course, for that put forward by Fake News.
I believe I have pointed out that the evidence so far provided by "fake news", (DNC hacking by the Russians) has blown up in their faces, and I have yet to see any new evidence, even on "fake news" to replace it.
Tom Ligon wrote:
Well, how can I argue with such logic?
You could provide some of that evidence regarding Russians hacking the election about which I asked you. I keep up with this stuff, and I don't know of any other supporting evidence in the DNC/New York Media pipeline. If you do, then you've managed to find material that I haven't seen, and not for lack of trying.
Tom Ligon wrote:
There's no way I can prove it (not my job anyway), if all evidence in that direction is automatically off the table because you think it is fake.
The evidence of which I am aware has turned out to be fake. (Russians hacking the DNC and releasing Damaging emails) This does not preclude other evidence from being valid, and if you know of any, I would like to see it. What I see is a media system (did I mention it mostly employed Liberal New Yorkers, and that New York voted for Obama by 89% ?) that has seized upon this and repeated it so often that many people have come to believe it, including you, I think.
Tom Ligon wrote:
And yet you keep thinking Pizzagate is ... how did you put it ...
hanelyp wrote:As for the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, I rate it consistent with the known character of the accused persons, but lacking in solid evidence.
Diogenes wrote:That's where I'm at. Lots of weird circumstantial evidence, but no smoking gun, coupled with "I wouldn't put it past them".
If you want to speculate about Ed Murray, be my guest ... there would seem to be about five smoking guns at this point. But please stick to the same standards you use to defend Trump. Pizzagate ... let's get this clear ... is a nutball conspiracy theory with absolutely no credibility.
Years ago I read a great rebuttal of Henry Fonda's character in "12 angry men." Fonda pointed out that each piece of evidence is inconclusive because there was an alternative explanation for it that did not prove the defendant to have committed the crime. The Rebuttal I read asserted that individually each piece of evidence could have an alternative explanation, but collectively they form a chain of probability that implicates the defendant.
Such is Pizzagate. Nothing that conclusively proves anything taken on it's own, but such a long series of oddities that don't have any clear benign explanations. It puts it in the category of "We need to keep an eye on this in case there are further developments in this direction", but not in the category of "This is an obvious case of wrongdoing."
Now I see the wheels turning in your mind thinking "But what about the long series of oddities related to Trump and Russia?" Well the bulk of those are derivative from the DNC hack, and therefore that entire class of derived evidence is basically rebutted.
Tom Ligon wrote:
Believing it "does not make much sense." So if you wish to go on pushing this idea, I've as much right to demand you show your sources as you have to demand I prove Russian collusion.
I thought you would never ask.
But let's take a "tale of two cities". I said the Russian hack thing was bunk. I proved it by citing political adversaries "statements against interest" which can and have been confirmed by others to be correct regarding the impossibility of Russians hacking the DNC and releasing those damaging emails.
I made my assertion. I cited my evidence.
You asserted that "Pizzagate" was bunk. I asked for evidence to support this. As of yet you haven't provided any beyond "everyone knows it's a nutball conspiracy theory." or some such.
I find what I have read and seen about "Pizzagate" deeply disturbing, and evidence that it is all some sort of misunderstanding would greatly relieve me, but of the several people who told me that it has been "debunked" I have yet to have any of them show me where or how it was debunked.
Tom Ligon wrote:
C'mon, where are you getting your evidence, the NutJobs Conspiracy Forum? Fake News!!!! I'd be on firmer ground if I insisted the Pee Pee Tapes are real.
If you want to condemn Hillary and Obama, just stick to the facts and don't make stuff up. There's plenty there.
Undoubtedly, which is why it isn't so irrational to believe there is even more there than has already surfaced.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —