EM Drive

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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zbarlici
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Re: EM Drive

Postby zbarlici » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:04 pm

Giorgio wrote:I am not, and I am also not a fan of ancient alien civilization theories.
[/quote]

How about Nephilim. Do you believe in nephilim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zz8_MxcnzY

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:29 pm

zbarlici wrote:
Giorgio wrote:I am not, and I am also not a fan of ancient alien civilization theories.


How about Nephilim. Do you believe in nephilim.


I do not believe in anything that requires the use of unquestionable truth or unquestionable statements as the base of their beliefs.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

zbarlici
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Re: EM Drive

Postby zbarlici » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:43 am

Giorgio wrote:
zbarlici wrote:
Giorgio wrote:I am not, and I am also not a fan of ancient alien civilization theories.


How about Nephilim. Do you believe in nephilim.


I do not believe in anything that requires the use of unquestionable truth or unquestionable statements .


...go ahead. Question away.

>In 2015, discussing earlier DNA tests on the remains, he said: "The mitochondrial DNA (from the mother) presented mutations unknown to any man, primate or any other animal and the mutations suggested we are dealing with a completely new human-like being

https://archive.fo/jVexA

'mutations' ... tryina fool the plebs

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:11 am

Not sure what your point is, but I didn't find anything worth discussing or arguing or questioning about in that newspaper article.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:42 am

Roadmap for Lab Experiments for Warp Drive
Brian Wang | September 26, 2019

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Brian Wang has been covering the warp theory work since Alcubierre published his work. The original Alcubierre work needed a Jupiter-mass of exotic material. Harold White’s work on warp bubble configuration and bubble thickness brought the theoretical power requirements to 500 kilograms (the mass of Voyager 1.) The work and attempts and experiments in 2014 had a gap between sensors and laser and magnet generation of effects at about 1 million times. We can boost sensor sensitivity several times. We can boost the effect generation. The point of the Agnew summaries is that there is a roadmap to closing the gap for experiments with the generation of detectable effects. Then we work on optimizing sensor and increasing the effect size. Any stable warping effect would magnify the capabilities of other propulsion. The LIGO (gravity wave) observatory detected gravity waves from colliding black holes and neutron stars. That work confirms physics related to Alcubierre warp propulsion.



Joseph Agnew, undergrad and research assistant from the University of Alabama in Huntsville’s Propulsion Research Center (PRC), presented the results of his study “An Examination of Warp Theory and Technology to Determine the State of the Art and Feasibility“. This was part of a session at The Future of Nuclear and Breakthrough Propulsion”.

The detection of gravity waves indicates the effect is real. We can work to experiments to study it and then to optimize the efficiency of producing the desired effects.

Brian Wang has been covering the warp theory work since Alcubierre published his work. The original Alcubierre work needed a Jupiter-mass of exotic material. Harold White’s work on warp bubble configuration and bubble thickness brought the theoretical power requirements to 500 kilograms (the mass of Voyager 1.) The work and attempts and experiments in 2014 had a gap between sensors and laser and magnet generation of effects at about 1 million times. We can boost sensor sensitivity several times. We can boost the effect generation. The point of the Agnew summaries is that there is a roadmap to closing the gap for experiments with the generation of detectable effects. Then we work on optimizing sensor and increasing the effect size. Any stable warping effect would magnify the capabilities of other propulsion. The LIGO (gravity wave) observatory detected gravity waves from colliding black holes and neutron stars. That work confirms physics related to Alcubierre warp propulsion


In 2018, University of Rochester researchers have succeeded in creating negative mass particles in an atomically thin semiconductor, by causing it to interact with confined light in an optical microcavity.

What if we can replace exotic matter with something that has similar properties to solve the problem once and for all? From 2006 to 2016, researchers were trying to use a toroidal positive energy density to create a spherical negative-pressure region and thus eliminate the need for exotic matter. Unfortunately, although they have already made some progresses in this field, these progresses have been criticized to be mere measurement error caused by the interference of people walking outside the room. They are trying to increase sensitivity up to one-hundredth of a wavelength and implement the oscillating field in order to get definite results.Duke University paper.

Producing and replicating even a very tiny human-made wave in a laboratory would be a groundbreaking event akin to LIGO, Agnew says. The LIGO discovery proved that the necessary technologies are evolving.

Quantum sensing could double the sensitivity of the LIGO (Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory).

Nextbigfuture reviewed all of the proposals for improved gravity wave detectors beyond LIGO. Most architectural design changes would not be applicable to warp field lab tests. The sensor improvements would be applicable.

“It’s really only now becoming a potential laboratory experiment because the technologies have now grown to the extent that they will support that level,” Agnew says. “We’re limited now by the sensitivity of the measurement instruments and by the level of power required to do the experiment.”

Supplying power is becoming more feasible as bigger magnetic generators come online. A Tesla is a unit used to measure magnetic fields. In 2004, it was estimated that 20 Teslas of energy would be required for the experiment. Since then, generators producing as many as 49 Teslas have been built.

“That’s where, from the classical side of things, we are looking at large amounts of energy required to create even a very little reaction,” Agnew says. Higher power would produce a larger and more easily measured effect.

On the measurement side of the experiment, Agnew says, “Of all the ideas out there, the one that appears to me to be more plausible is the interferometer.”

In 2014, a paper indicated that we needed interferometry that was one million times more sensitive to detect the amount of spacetime warping we could generate in a lab experiment.

Applying superconductors and metamaterials could greatly improve the detectors. Superconductors, magnets and lasers advancements can enhance the amount of the spacetime warping effect.

Increasing sensitivity and increased effects could close the gap to a detectable warping experiment.

Even a very small but reliable space-time warp could be coupled with nuclear propulsion to provide a significant boost to speed, some theorists suggest. “One of the effects of being in the bubble is that it reduces the apparent mass of what’s inside,” Agnew says. “In that case, even a marginal effect may increase the efficiency of other forms of propulsion.”

Full copy of An Examination of Warp Theory and Technology to Determine the State of the Art and Feasibility.

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Sonny White and Eagleworks Lab Previously Made Orders of Magnitude Improvement from 2011 through 2014

In 2011 and 2012 during the 100 Year Starship Symposium, Dr. Harold “Sonny” White improved Alcubierre work to vastly reduce the energy requirements. Nextbigfuture covered White’s at Eaglework. White varied the ship geometry and the warp bubble thickness to drastically reduce the theoretical power requirements for faster than light travel.

Previously the literature has quoted Jupiter amounts of exotic matter/negative pressure necessary to implement a “useful” warp bubble, making the idea mostly of academic interest at best. Sensitivity analysis started by White in 2011 and completed in 2012 has shown that the energy requirements can be greatly reduced by first optimizing the warp bubble thickness, and further by oscillating the bubble intensity to reduce the stiffness of space-time. They yielded a reduction from Jupiter amount of exotic matter to an amount smaller than the Voyager 1 spacecraft (500kg) for a 10-meter bubble with an effective velocity of 10 times light speed.

The Eagleworks Q-thruster experiment attempts to utilize applied scientific research in the fields of quantum vacuum, gravitation, the nature of space-time, and other fundamental phenomena to realize the possibility of an ultra-high Isp propulsion solution. Through these underpinnings, it is mathematically possible to employ the vacuum particle/anti-particle “sea” and utilize it as propellant reaction mass. Previous QVPT tests have generated possible thrust signals in the milli-Newton range and hinted at Isp’s on the order of 10^12 seconds. This iteration aims to validate or refute the present evidence in order to push forward in pursuit of breakthrough propulsion physics. For the exhibit, they will present a conceptual visualization of these effects, and provide a summary of present data and future plans.

The NASA Ames Director’s Colloquium Summer Series was presented by the Office of the Chief Scientist as part of the Center’s 75th anniversary celebration.

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https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/09/r ... drive.html

JLawson
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Re: EM Drive

Postby JLawson » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:58 pm

All we need is some unobtainium, and... we're golden. (Sigh)
When opinion and reality conflict - guess which one is going to win in the long run.

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:10 am

JLawson wrote:All we need is some unobtainium, and... we're golden. (Sigh)


A Detailed Breakdown of an Alcubierre Warp Drive Coil

Published on Nov 24, 2019


A Detailed Breakdown of an Alcubierre Warp Drive Coil


Support our work via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/AsteronX

AsteronX.com
https://twitter.com/AsteronX
https://www.facebook.com/asteronx/

Further reading:

Time Travel and Warp Drives by Allen Everett and Thomas Roman
https://www.bookogs.com/book/227462-t...

Related Wikipedia articles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhol...

Warp Field Mechanics 101
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...

Warp Field Mechanics 102
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...

Advanced Propulsion Physics: Harnessing the Quantum Vacuum
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...


The general concept of the "warp drive" was first introduced by John W. Campbell in his 1931 novel Islands of Space. Since then it has captured the attention of many science-fiction writers.

As with many technologies found within the pages of a good novel, a great number of them eventually find their way into reality. And that’s because of this little something we call—inspiration.

Alcubierre was no exception—having been inspired to mathematically work out a model for a potential real-life warp drive enduring an episode of Star Trek. Though he never intended to develop it further, he did, however, inspire others including NASA and us.
From day one the drive has been primarily associated with FTL travel. But most of you are probably not aware that the warp drive has multiple functions. In about 50 years we will be able to travel FTL, but until then we can still benefit from the warp drive tech today, and in a moment I’ll tell you how we can do just that.

But first, let’s provide you with a detailed explanation of the warp drive and how it actually distorts or curves spacetime.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHD0Pq0TJLI

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:13 pm

williatw wrote:A Detailed Breakdown of an Alcubierre Warp Drive Coil


Regardless of how detailed they can be in their theories, before even thinking to test them they will still need unobtainable Unobtanium as stated above, and that's' the whole issue here.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:19 pm

Giorgio wrote:
williatw wrote:A Detailed Breakdown of an Alcubierre Warp Drive Coil


Regardless of how detailed they can be in their theories, before even thinking to test them they will still need unobtainable Unobtanium as stated above, and that's' the whole issue here.


They are claiming Giorgio that they don't need "Unobtanium" if by that you mean "exotic matter" to warp space. They claim using "Quark Nuggets" harvested from asteroids bred to anti-matter will give them the fuel for the drive. They are saying that according to Sonny White's work that normal mass-energy equivalent fed to and oscillated properly in the "ring" will produce negative energy equivalent inside the ring. If you are in the mood please listen to the posted link if you have time looks interesting, like to hear your opinion. Don't know anything about the credibility of "AsteronX" the post's source. One objection I noted in comments:
03:30 It says It says "18 billion mega-watt hours for a single warp event". 1,000,000X3600=3.6E9 Joules. Times 18 billion; 3.6E9X18E9= 6.48E18 Joules. Okay; even with your Quark matter bred to antimatter for fuel and a 1 TW reactor power fed to the ring would take 6.48E18/1E12= 6.5E7 seconds or 750 days to deliver your "one warp event energy". What size ship/coil/power reactor(s) are you envisioning for your ship? That would have to be one large coil and obviously large ship to generate/handle that kind of power/waste heat etc.


This issue was noted by others in comments as far as I know no reply posted from AsteronX. In the last part (around 10:45) they claim that you don't need the higher power levels to observe the effect; the 18 billion mega-watt hours was only for the full on warp space event. They said you could use much lower power levels to reduce the hypothetical craft's I believe inertial mass; that if true would be more testable hypotheses with current tech.

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:56 am

williatw wrote: 03:30 It says It says "18 billion mega-watt hours for a single warp event". 1,000,000X3600=3.6E9 Joules. Times 18 billion; 3.6E9X18E9= 6.48E18 Joules. Okay; even with your Quark matter bred to antimatter for fuel and a 1 TW reactor power fed to the ring would take 6.48E18/1E12= 6.5E7 seconds or 750 days to deliver your "one warp event energy".


You and Skipjack in an earlier post showed a "Flow-Stabilized Z-Pinch"

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/r ... p#fszpinch

According to the link the fusion power of the drive is 3.3TW for the De-He3 burn (not 33 which I erroneously posted earlier). The effective power I assume would be the fusion power minus the input Power so; (3.3TW-1.8TW) = 1.5TW. So it would take approx. 750/1.5= about 500 days of your z-pinch "torching" to reach the single warp event energy ignoring the conversion steps from output fusion energy to charge for the "warp coil". (Maybe even less so with the denser Boron11-H burn.) I would assume some sort of open cycle Magnetohydrodynamic generator to extract electricity from the Z-Pinch's exhaust. You would still get presumably the inertial mass reduction for the ship from charging the coil even at much lower than warp event energies. Probably work you would likely just have to be able to refuel with fusion fuel at your destination star system. So the speculative "Quark Nuggets" would be perhaps desirable but not essential for it to work.
Last edited by williatw on Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:35 am

williatw wrote:They are claiming Giorgio that they don't need "Unobtanium" if by that you mean "exotic matter" to warp space. They claim using "Quark Nuggets" harvested from asteroids bred to anti-matter will give them the fuel for the drive. They are saying that according to Sonny White's work that normal mass-energy equivalent fed to and oscillated properly in the "ring" will produce negative energy equivalent inside the ring. If you are in the mood please listen to the posted link if you have time looks interesting, like to hear your opinion.



I listen to the video and I read the paper (insomnia helps a lot in these cases).
The whole "quark nugget" theory he makes is based on the assumption that there is a need of a new theory to explain why some objects listed in the "The asteroid lightcurve database" has a spin velocity that is higher than the "spin barrier".
But the "Spin Barrier" velocity is by definition that velocity that cannot be overcome to maintain cohesion (structural integrity) of an asteroid composed by "loose material". And here is all the issue, this speed limit does not mean that we cannot explain why such asteroids exists, it just tell us that these objects cannot be composed by "loose material", i.e., they must be made by a chunk of "solid material".

Even the most fast and massive object of that database is a 300 meter asteroid spinning at 10.000 rotation a day. Just by applying ω = v / 2πr we get a tangential speed at the edge of around 109 m/sec, or 400 km/h. Quite slow and well within the stress limits of 99.x% of all solid materials we know.
It is nothing exceptional.

There is really no need to make up a theory to explain something that is already easily explained by tested and verified mechanical laws, except that they needed to push people to believe that "Quark nuggets" could indeed exist and that could make their engine practical.
Unfortunately, it is all just a theoretical construct, a mathematical model not different from the Hydrinos of BLP fame and their only real world application will be to act as catalyst to separate people from part of their bank savings.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:52 am

Giorgio wrote:I listen to the video and I read the paper (insomnia helps a lot in these cases).


Well try 12 hour swing-shifts on for size; I work in a lab, we service production so we have to work the hours they work (even if all of them don't). Look at my 2nd post maybe we don't maybe need Quark matter after all. Even if it exists it is less than ideal; the advocate mentions that the so called chunk/nugget would be indivisible. If the recovered piece weighed one million metric tons there is no way to divide it into smaller pieces; you would literally have to build/design the ship/mission around the "chunk". Not so with fusion fuel.

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:34 am

williatw wrote: Not so with fusion fuel.

Than I must argue that with fusion fuel we get back to square one because in the original idea of Alcubierre warp drive there was the need of this Jupiter size mass that "hopefully" would have created the warp space effect needed to propel the craft.
If we remove this from the equation we are back to classical theory of warp drive whose experiments, to date, did not produce any meaningful result nor gave hints that the phenomena is real.

Mind you, I am not saying that is impossible, I am just saying that the theories and experimental results with our actual state of the art are a dead end.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

williatw
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Re: EM Drive

Postby williatw » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:33 am

Giorgio wrote:Than I must argue that with fusion fuel we get back to square one because in the original idea of Alcubierre warp drive there was the need of this Jupiter size mass that "hopefully" would have created the warp space effect needed to propel the craft.
If we remove this from the equation we are back to classical theory of warp drive whose experiments, to date, did not produce any meaningful result nor gave hints that the phenomena is real.



The link's work is based on Dr Sonny White's work. He was the one who got the amount of "exotic matter" down from a Jupiter mass to the mass of the Voyager space probe. This link builds on that saying that White also believed that you didn't have to have "exotic matter" in any amount to get the desired space warping "negative energy", that "positive" mass-energy would suffice if configured properly would produce negative energy. That is where the link's "18 billion mega-watt years" of energy comes from. 2nd link info about such starts at about 04:20:


Are Warp Drives Actually Practical?
AsteronX


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNiIo8Jm2og&t=1106s

Has nothing directly to due with the Quark matter; that was just a convenient way to be able to generate energy dense anti-matter to get the positive energy to charge the coil; proof of concept doesn't require it especially to observe the lower energy hypothesized inertial mass reduction. Imagine if for your "starship" you had a configuration of four of your modified "Z-pinch" 3.3TW fusion rockets working in tandem extracting electrical energy from the expelled propellant to charge the ring. 1.5TW(net) X 4 = 6TW. So instead of an estimated 750 days for one TW we get; 750/6= 125 days of "torching" to single warp event energies (ignoring the extraction efficiency of electricity from the plasma whatever that is).
Last edited by williatw on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Re: EM Drive

Postby Giorgio » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:51 am

williatw wrote:The link's work is based on Dr Sonny White's work.


Yes, I was referencing also to him (among the others) when I mentioned that actual theories and experimental results of phenomena that would enable a warp drive like engine didn't produce any meaningful result to date.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.


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