The Prince gets it.

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choff
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The Prince gets it.

Postby choff » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:34 pm

CHoff

Diogenes
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Re: The Prince gets it.

Postby Diogenes » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:57 pm

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:13 am

My browser locks up when I try that first link, but a search on "wind farm prince phillip" produces enough hits.

The articles are typically biased against wind farms and make a couple of inaccurate assertations, but also some fair ones.

Wind farms do not require that more fossil-fuel-burning powerplants be built. Were it not for wind and other alternative fuels, we'd need those anyway. What they do is reduce (tho' not much, and only when conditions are favorable) the fuel burned at plants we'd need anyway. Hence, Mount Storm in WV has them arrayed for miles around a beast of a coal plant.

First-generation turbines have indeed been abandoned in droves. The last I saw the plant at the southern tip of Hawaii (late 2000), it had only a couple of turbines still running. The ones running definitely had a distinctive drone. More revealing, this fairly large wind farm in one of the best steady wind conditions in the US had only a single row of wooden power poles leading from it ... from the gage of cable I'd say it produced enough power for a small town, but nothing more. That's a huge capital investment for not much production. Then again, the facility is on an active volcano where geothermal is the only sensible way to go.

It remains to be seen if second-generation designs hold up better. They are considerably quieter (I've been close enough to verify this), and their blades run higher off the ground so they are supposedly less dangerous to birds and bats. BTW, the 20-story-high Cuisinarts are first-generation. Current production is 40-story-high Cuisinarts.

I do agree that they would not be going up without government meddling, which, as usual, has skewed the economic picture for these things to produce irrational application of the technology. Left to their own economics, I would espect they might be worthwhile on island nations where imported fuel is expensive and a gross balance-of-trade drain, but would rarely be put up otherwise.

It is perfectly true that they are useless in both high winds and light winds, working best around 20 knots, so they only produce good power occasionally.

I would prefer that opponents of these things attack them on well-considered and fully-documented engineering and economics. Attacking them with lies and half-truths gives the other side ammunition. When the facts are with you, stick to the facts. And I would not cite, for expert opinion on a technology, a cranky old Royal whose wife usually tries to keep him from speaking in public because he tends to be impolitic and poorly-informed. Remember, the man has no job, he's basically living off his sugar-momma.

Diogenes
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Postby Diogenes » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:37 am

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Tom Ligon
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Contact:

Postby Tom Ligon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:46 am


Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
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Postby Tom Ligon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:02 am


Diogenes
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Postby Diogenes » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:40 pm

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Postby Tom Ligon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:03 pm


choff
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Postby choff » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:40 am

CHoff

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:30 am


williatw
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Re: The Prince gets it.

Postby williatw » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:46 am


krenshala
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Re: The Prince gets it.

Postby krenshala » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:45 pm

2 million meals per year equates to nearly 4 metric tons (3.7Mg) per day, assuming 0.7kg per meal. I base the 0.7kg on 0.85kg per "meal" with about 0.15kg of that being packaging, based on a NASA article I read yesterday.

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Re: The Prince gets it.

Postby williatw » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:26 pm


paperburn1
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Re: The Prince gets it.

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:23 pm

The myth started with Andrew Walden, a Hawaiian anti-wind activist, in early 2010. He wrote an article starting with the Kamaoa Wind Farm in Hawaii that was heading for decommissioning and repowering and pulled the number of 14,000 permanently inactive wind turbines out of … somewhere.
In the best wind spots on earth, over 14,000 turbines were simply abandoned.

He doesn’t make any effort to show how he arrived at this magical number. He doesn’t list sources. He doesn’t show calculations. He just comes up with 14,000 for the world through some magical process. You would think that the lack of any supporting evidence would prevent people from quoting and then exaggerating even his already wildly exaggerated claim. However, the quality of evidence doesn’t matter

So, what is an accurate number or methodology for determining the current number of permanently inactive wind turbines?

Short Answer:

A more realistic maximum number is at most 1% of installed wind turbines — perhaps 2,000 wind turbines — and perhaps 0.1% of generation capacity. And the number of permanently inactive wind turbines is diminishing as they are replaced with working modern turbines.
[1] http://www.thewindpower.net/windfarms_list_en.php

[2] http://www.wwindea.org/home/index.php?o ... &Itemid=43


[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehachapi_ ... on_Project


[4] http://www.awea.org/blog/index.cfm?cust ... 1699=16032

[5] http://www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/en ... power.html

[6] http://www.nawindpower.com/e107_plugins ... ntent.9872

[7] http://www.gwec.net/global-figures/wind-in-numbers/

[8] First Wind project in Hawaii goes operational
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/more-wi ... test-19963
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

williatw
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Re: The Prince gets it.

Postby williatw » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:18 pm



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