10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[ladajo]

Was that not the October 2012 "Get your shit together you idiot" notice that gave him the four months to sort himself out?

[Stubby]

Just noticed that the author of the slide show lists himself as a source. I.e. he is one of the 'credible people'

Mitt Romney is listed as 'compelling support'

[seedload]

And with that I'm formally bowing out of this discussion until some miracle occurs that provides some sort of tangible evidence in favor of this ridiculous claim. Until that time, I firmly believe Rossi is con man and a crook.

I recognize your belief and basically agree that it is probably correct. Though I do also allow as how there is a significant possibility that he is mentally impaired and a small chance that he is on to something.

What I keep asking for and keep getting cr@p about is EVIDENCE, solid evidence that justifies folks statements as FACT. So far you have demonstrated that he was convicted for tax fraud. Other than that, shoddy reasoning and innuendo. The whole FBRC is a case in point. Oh whell!.

Still not sure why you are hung up on the term "fact". Evidence and fact are not inextricably linked. You can have evidence that supports a position without it fully demonstrating the position to be fact. You can have strong beliefs based on evidence without knowing your position to be an immutable fact. You can even plainly state your position (Rossi is full of shit) and have that position be based on evidence (he has been caught in many obvious lies) and not be taking the position that what you are saying is fact.

Normal conversation involves people making explicit statements even though they are aware that they cannot prove them to be facts. People tend to say what they believe in declaratory statements. Typically, everyone knows what they mean without them having to include the superfluous "I believe", "I think", and "the evidence supports". It is called communicating.

Someone who continues to argue about the quality of the phrasing, insisting that something was stated as fact when it quite obviously was not due the normal colloquialisms of every day conversation, is either oblivious to every day communication or is just being contrary - especially when that person is simultaneously claiming to basically agree. In this case, I suspect that being contrary is the most likely explanation.

I can't believe I checked in on this thread many months from my last post and the first thing I saw was Kiteman still trying to explain to the world what the word "fact" means even though everyone knows.

Anyway, not only does Rossi walk like a duck, swim like a duck, and talk like a duck, but the x-rays show duck organs in duck organ places and the guy at the DNA lab let it slip that his sequence is 100% duck even though the final report isn't complete.

Later. I will check back in a few more months to see what new delay tactic Rossi is working on.

[Asterix]

You're not dealing with facts or evidence here. You're dealing with the old saw attributed to Julius Caesar:

"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt"

Briefly, "Men readily believe what they want". I'm sure that Mr. Rossi is very familiar with it.

[KitemanSA]

Still not sure why you are hung up on the term "fact". Evidence and fact are not inextricably linked. You can have evidence that supports a position without it fully demonstrating the position to be fact. You can have strong beliefs based on evidence without knowing your position to be an immutable fact. You can even plainly state your position (Rossi is full of shit) and have that position be based on evidence (he has been caught in many obvious lies) ...

Please provide one related to the e-cat. This is the kind of statement of purported "fact" that folks never back up. I keep cross examining them till they finally fall back on, "well he was convicted of tax fraud so that proves he lied about the e-cat". I don't accept that equation. He MAY have lied, but I have seen no proof.

[Axil]

The dark horse

http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/04/pesn- ... defkalion/

[Stubby]

dark unicorn since still no 3rd party verification
defkalion is no better than Rossi is providing evidence that their device works as described.

[ScottL]

Still not sure why you are hung up on the term "fact". Evidence and fact are not inextricably linked. You can have evidence that supports a position without it fully demonstrating the position to be fact. You can have strong beliefs based on evidence without knowing your position to be an immutable fact. You can even plainly state your position (Rossi is full of shit) and have that position be based on evidence (he has been caught in many obvious lies) ...

Please provide one related to the e-cat. This is the kind of statement of purported "fact" that folks never back up. I keep cross examining them till they finally fall back on, "well he was convicted of tax fraud so that proves he lied about the e-cat". I don't accept that equation. He MAY have lied, but I have seen no proof.

Hurray for jumping back into a topic on a slow day. I have already shown that Rossi has lied in the past in relation to his convictions of fraud, tax evasion, etc. He is well documented as providing his version of these stories which simply do not align with the facts based on court ruled verdicts and testimony. What we've established is that the man has lied, repeatedly, with regard to these allegations. Of course this does not mean he is actively lying about the e-cat, but it definitely provides precedent for and validity in calling him a repeat liar. The rest from there is really semantics, at some point you have to choose as do juries and judges.

[Axil]

Still not sure why you are hung up on the term "fact". Evidence and fact are not inextricably linked. You can have evidence that supports a position without it fully demonstrating the position to be fact. You can have strong beliefs based on evidence without knowing your position to be an immutable fact. You can even plainly state your position (Rossi is full of shit) and have that position be based on evidence (he has been caught in many obvious lies) ...

Please provide one related to the e-cat. This is the kind of statement of purported "fact" that folks never back up. I keep cross examining them till they finally fall back on, "well he was convicted of tax fraud so that proves he lied about the e-cat". I don't accept that equation. He MAY have lied, but I have seen no proof.

Hurray for jumping back into a topic on a slow day. I have already shown that Rossi has lied in the past in relation to his convictions of fraud, tax evasion, etc. He is well documented as providing his version of these stories which simply do not align with the facts based on court ruled verdicts and testimony. What we've established is that the man has lied, repeatedly, with regard to these allegations. Of course this does not mean he is actively lying about the e-cat, but it definitely provides precedent for and validity in calling him a repeat liar. The rest from there is really semantics, at some point you have to choose as do juries and judges.

What is the difference between Rossi and James "Jamie" Dimon. He is an highly respected American business executive. He is the current chairman, president and chief executive officer of JPMorgan Chase, one of the Big Four banks of the United States, and has served as a Class A director of the Board of Directors of the New York Federal Reserve since January 2007.

Life goes on.” That statement recently by JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon as part of a so-called apology to shareholders for the $6 billion London Whale trading loss is emblematic of the man at the helm of a corporate culture that places little value on compliance and business integrity.

Although JPMorgan’s board of directors docked Dimon’s bonus by 50 percent, he still walked away with $11.5 million in compensation for 2012 – a staggering sum in a year when the bank faced months of embarrassing revelations and serious questions about the legality and integrity of its practices.

Whatever else Dimon accomplished at JPMorgan this past year, it was overshadowed by a long list of legal, regulatory and ethical lapses that came to light in 2012: the massive losses from the London Whale trading fiasco; a $4.3 billion settlement with federal and state prosecutors over mortgage abuses; a $297 million settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) over charges of lying to investors about the quality of mortgage-backed bonds; a $45 million settlement with the Department of Justice over charges of veterans’ loan fraud; a cease-and-desist order for failures to comply with federal anti-money laundering laws; an ongoing federal investigation of LIBOR-rigging; a temporary ban on energy trading for failing to disclose information in a market manipulation investigation by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission; accusations of manipulating silver prices.

Explain it to me, why is Jamie Dimon one of America’s great business leaders, and Rossi is a con man?

Is it the amount of money that a guy can steal; Is there a threshold of thief that must be exceeded before a guy can be considered a great business mind?

If Rossi steals as much from people as Mitt Romney, can he run for president? Explain this to me. You must not be a real American or one of those socialistic foreigners.

There must be something seriously wrong with your early moral upbringing, all you good old boys. Your values are just not in the right place.

[mvanwink5]

Axil,
I am having trouble here, are you saying that Rossi is not as good at being a con as James "Jamie" Dimon, so Rossi should be treated better (with more respect and money) than the very big con (James "Jamie" Dimon)? Or are you saying that the business community was fooled by James "Jamie" Dimon, so why shouldn't they be also fooled by Rossi? Help me through your logic, I am missing something....

[ScottL]

I'm with mvanwink5 on this one, I don't understand your point. Dimon is not a great business man, but definitely a great con man, Rossi.... not so much of either to be honest. Maybe try a different analogy to communicate your point?

[Axil]

I'm with mvanwink5 on this one, I don't understand your point. Dimon is not a great business man, but definitely a great con man, Rossi.... not so much of either to be honest. Maybe try a different analogy to communicate your point?

I’m saying business is war. We have entered the era of total competition. Countries can rise or fall on banking decisions. No matter your industry, company, or nationality, there is a battle-ready competitor somewhere who is busy thinking how to beat you. There are no safe havens.

Unlike you good old boys who had your morals formed in cradle school, I am not making these moral judgments; I’m just an observer of the current business scene.

In the life-or-death quest for strategic change, business has much to learn from war. Both are about the same thing: succeeding in competition. Even more basic, both can be distilled in simple words: do it to them before they can do it to you. Gain the advantage without going to jail. The key objective in competition - whether business or war - is to improve your organization's position along these dimensions.

I am saying that there is a double standard being imposed here on this thread. Why Rossi should be handicapped by acting morally when his competition is the most ruthless and amoral bastards that the world has yet produced in the long history of international business?

Why an up and coming business man with a new type of product should be hamstrung by morality when the fight to the death involving his nascent business is at hand.

How could Rossi compete against the likes of Ken Lay and his cronies? Kenneth Lee "Ken" Lay was an American businessman, best known for his role in the widely reported corruption scandal that led to the downfall of Enron Corporation.

What would Enron do against Rossi? Lay and Enron became synonymous with corporate abuse and accounting fraud when the scandal broke in 2001. Lay was the CEO and chairman of Enron from 1985 until his resignation on January 23, 2002, except for a few months in 2000 when he was chairman and Jeffrey Skilling was chief executive officer (CEO). He was the confidant of the president, He got the man elected; played golf with him and had his ear.

When you are in business to survive, you can’t afford the luxury of morality in America.

You have the Chinese bugging your phone and hatching into your computers.

You have special interests paying congress for special taxes that undercut your business plans.

What is more important, to be a good man or survive in America.

Rossi got his business education from the mafia in Italy. He learned some lessons, but will these hard won lessons be enough?

The goal is to do as much “good business” as you can without going to jail. The Enron guys pushed it a little too far, they paid for it, but they were stupid for pulling the tail of the dragon just a little too hard, that was their mistake.

Let’s get real here. This is the real world, not some religious nursery school.

You engineers have the holier than thou attitude that gets you replaced by slave labor from overseas sporting new hb-1 visas newly bought by foreign service companies from congress. Soon, you will have all the time in the world to complain about the evils done by Rossi when the slave labor from overseas arrives to take your jobs.

[Stubby]

If Rossi has a viable product........

[mvanwink5]

Why an up and coming business man with a new type of product should be hamstrung by morality

Axil, that seems to be your argument essence and it is confusing to me, are you saying Rossi shouldn't have to be moral because others are getting away with being immoral? Your logic still has me completely baffled, but thanks for illuminating a Rossi supporter's thinking by giving us your explanations and logic.

[303]

Why an up and coming business man with a new type of product should be hamstrung by morality

pfff, Rossi is hampered all right, by REALITY