Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Skipjack »

Carl White wrote:
Sat May 13, 2023 6:10 pm
A little depressing how negative the general reaction to the Helion/Microsoft power delivery agreement has been. A lot of "Helion is a scam", "Helion can't possibly deliver", "Helion hasn't published enough to be credible", etc.
I think people will eat their words within the next 2 years. Of course, they will the move the goal posts again. I vividly remember the same discussions about SpaceX...
"they can't fly them back to land", then "they can't land them", then "OK, they could land them but they can't do it again", then "they could land them again, but they will need to do that least 10 times..."
Now the entire space industry is aiming for F9- like reusability.

Helion was/is going through a similar situation right now.

Munchausen
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:36 pm
Location: Nikaloukta

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Munchausen »

Are there any predictions regarding the grid stability characteristics of this technology? It is a pulsed energy source that regulates its output by the number of pulses per time.

A dedicated external flywheel stabilizer is of course a proven and functional of the shelf solution. But it adds cost and complexity.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Skipjack »

The capacitor bank takes care of the stability part. Otherwise, the idea is for these machines to load follow.

sdg
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by sdg »

Another article about the Helion/Microsoft deal:
Microsoft just made a huge, far-from-certain bet on nuclear fusion
https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/10/2371 ... -agreement

Regarding delivering fusion-based electricity to Microsoft:
To say that’s a tall order would be the understatement of the year. “I would say it’s the most audacious thing I’ve ever heard,” says University of Chicago theoretical physicist Robert Rosner. “In these kinds of issues, I will never say never. But it would be astonishing if they succeed.
The MS deal is generating a lot of interest. This is getting pretty exciting!

mvanwink5
Posts: 2143
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:07 am
Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by mvanwink5 »

Utilities have to look far into the future. Fusion investors in projects that target late 2030's will be wondering if the projects could be accelerated. Plant shutdowns will likely be delayed. Fusion is ideal & 50MW sized plants is super news as large multi GW sized plants are difficult to site. Helion kicked the hornet nest.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Skipjack »

It will be interesting to see how the other major startups react. I think right now, people are still in denial. Lots of "all just marketing" and "they are trying to get more investors" among them. Right now everyone is waiting for 2024 and what that will bring. If Helion can report even just a high Q with D-T (not even net electricity) at that point, the rest of the fusion world will go crazy.

charliem
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by charliem »

Skipjack wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 3:36 am
If Helion can report even just a high Q with D-T (not even net electricity) at that point, the rest of the fusion world will go crazy.
Exactly my thinking.

I've studied the formulas Dr Kirtley included in his last year Princeton presentation. I wanted to try to reproduce the power density graphs in slides 18, 19 and 20. It seems they do, although only roughly.

Then, I have this idea:

According to slide 20, with a fuel of D-3He, peek magnetic field of B=20T, beta=1 and Te/Ti=0.1, Helion machines could, theoretically, surpass Qsci=1 above 12 keV in ion temp. What would those same formulas say if we switched fuels for D-T, while keeping all the other parameters equal ?

The answer I obtained is that under those conditions the temperature for Qsci=1 falls well under 9 keV. It also says it should be possible to achieve it with much weaker magnetic fields. In summary, that Trenta's 10T and 9+ keV may have been enough to get to Qsci>0.5, maybe enough to scrape Qsci=1 (with, yes, 80% of the energy production in neutrons).

That would have been right there in the news worldwide, besides NIF's Qsci>1 achievement.

Helion has never put as much effort as other fusion research companies on their PR. They have not published experimental results, neither through peer reviewed papers, nor in less formal ways. Searching for hard numbers online only reveals bits and pieces.

It's understandable, given that they are 100% privately funded at present, and concentrated on advancing fusion tech, but this overlook carries its own consequences.

When people have no hard data (and sometimes even when they have) they resort to talk out their a***s. Simple human nature: act/talk as if you know, no matter whether you do or don't.

edits: grammar and spelling
"The problem is not what we don't know, but what we do know [that] isn't so" (Mark Twain)

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Skipjack »

From all I know, Polaris is aiming for over 200 million degrees C in plasma temperature.
I also think that 0.1 for Te:Ti is conservative. Trenta surpassed that already at much lower temperatures and this ratio decreases further with higher temperatures.

crowberry
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by crowberry »

Helion Energy is reporting progress on their pulsed power supply system:
David Kirtley
@dekirtley
This represents a major stride in Helion’s technology development. Trenta pulsed once every ten minutes. This test showed we can pulse the power systems for Polaris once per second for long durations. Huge!
Helion
@Helion_Energy
Pulsed power test complete! Operating at 1 Hz, the Vela test capacitor bank moved more than 11 GJ total energy through our system. This milestone showcased the reliability of our new solid-state switches for Polaris and provides a scalable path to direct electricity recovery.

sdg
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by sdg »

Another popular article on Helion. Nothing technical in this, as it's for a general audience. And that seems both notable and positive:
https://www.businessinsider.com/helion- ... oft-2023-5

mvanwink5
Posts: 2143
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:07 am
Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by mvanwink5 »

Helion Energy is reporting progress on their pulsed power supply system:
Good news for progress in that their key power system (electric power recovery system) has been built & tested at full scale.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Skipjack »

First section of Polaris is complete and the second formation section is well under way.
HelionFirstSectionComplete.jpg
HelionFirstSectionComplete.jpg (108.55 KiB) Viewed 848 times

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by ladajo »

Nice to see some still making progress, while others seem to have gone quiet like TriAlpha.
It is a long slow game.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by Skipjack »

ladajo wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:02 pm
Nice to see some still making progress, while others seem to have gone quiet like TriAlpha.
It is a long slow game.
Yeah, Helion seems to still be pretty much on schedule, I think. Maybe a month behind (though they never were specific about the exact time they plan to have Polaris operational, IIRC).

mvanwink5
Posts: 2143
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:07 am
Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: Helion Energy to demonstrate net electricity production by 2024

Post by mvanwink5 »

Beautiful machine!
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

Post Reply