http://www.polyplasmon.com/?p=1
This link is to a blog about cold fusion, discussing work done at the U of Illinois, a world class research university.
The DOE has put a hold on funding. A lousy 100k and some one has put a hold on the funding.
It seems to me that there's something disgraceful about this at one end or the other. And considering the sort of institution that resides in Champaign-Urbana, my suspicion is that the problem lies with those that are putting on the hold. After all it seems that Miley has simply done an experiment that yielded intriguing results and asked for further funding. Hardly controversial.
Cold Fusion
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Jeff Mauldin
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:41 pm
Cold fusion real?
In Analog magazine, where I and I suspect others first came to know about IEC fusion through Tom Ligon's articles, Jeffrey Koostra penned an "Alternate View" column which basically took the position that cold fusion is now established as a phenomenon beyond all reasonable doubt, and also that it's definitely fusion due to the resulting products.
I'm pretty sure Mr. Koostra has some thinking that we might reasonably call out on the fringe, but I'm usually intrigued by what he has to say. Anybody know about solid repeated experimental results (and even better ones not reported just in infinite energy magazine)?
Koostra also made the comment that if he was in charge of $100 to spend on fusion research, he'd spend $75 on polywell-type research, $20 for cold fusion research, and $5 on hot fusion to try and make sure we keep access to all the current hot fusion researchers' expertise. In my, of course, completely clear headed and unbiased opinion that shows just how Mr. Koostra is very reasonable.
I'm pretty sure Mr. Koostra has some thinking that we might reasonably call out on the fringe, but I'm usually intrigued by what he has to say. Anybody know about solid repeated experimental results (and even better ones not reported just in infinite energy magazine)?
Koostra also made the comment that if he was in charge of $100 to spend on fusion research, he'd spend $75 on polywell-type research, $20 for cold fusion research, and $5 on hot fusion to try and make sure we keep access to all the current hot fusion researchers' expertise. In my, of course, completely clear headed and unbiased opinion that shows just how Mr. Koostra is very reasonable.
I don't read Analog magazine and I have always been skeptical of cold fusion claims. The reason why I am skeptical of cold fusion is that Hydrogen embrittlement of metals is a well known problem in metallurgy that has been studied since the early 20th century. Cold fusion is based on the fusion of Hydrogen or Deuterium in metal lattices. If it were a real phenomenon, it seems to me that the metallurgical literature about the Hydrogen embrittlement should contain references to "anomalous" heat generation as well. This is not the case as far as I know.
Jeff and I go way back. He takes a contrarian approach on a number of subjects. Some would play well here, some not. I did give him a tour of the lab in Manassas Park once.
The arguments over Jeff's recent column inspired me to resurrect the topic of controversy and the scientific method, and I recalled Dr. Miley in that discussion.
Miley was an electrostatic fusion researcher before dabbling in CF. He was founding editor of Fusion Technology (now goes by a different name). George was one of the few editors who would seriously look at CF papers. I looked over a few, and they seemed to be mostly by careful researchers. Dr. Miley would visit some of the labs, and even participate in the experiments ... I consider that a far more comprehensive form of peer review than is normally done for journals. He was also doing confirming experiments.
I am not involved in CF research, and can't really comment on the quality, but I will say Dr. Miley was doing far more to confirm the content of CF papers than most editors do to peer review submissions of more accepted work.
Somewhere I may have a pile of Dr. Bussard's old FT journals. If I can find the right box, maybe I can point out a few articles. Somewhere (maybe in FT) I encountered one that documented wholesale (some unambiguous number like 25% of the atoms) of the electrode metal being transmuted in a cell that ran for weeks generating modest net heat, running plain hydrogen, not deuterium.
I've never done calorimetry, but I've done guarded hot plate insulation tests and guarded thermal conductivity tests. Guard techniques (similar to guarded electrodes in very sensitive electrometer work) use a shell around a temperature cell, controlled to match the temperature of the cell, to reduce heat leakage to nearly zero. Most early CF researchers did not do calorimetry this way ... the better later researchers apparently did. It was one thing I could look for to see if they could be taken seriously.
I certainly don't begrudge CF a dribble of funds.
As for Jeff's endorsement, I accept it and thank him for it, but with the knowledge his views will manage to irritate more than one mainstream researcher. Among his favorite subjects ...
Does not believe in AGW (like about 3/4 of this forum)
Thinks modern electrodynamic theory is off due to an error by Grasmann that Lorentz fell for that Maxwell fell for that Einstein fell for.
Does not believe in the Big Bang ... favors a continuous creation model.
The arguments over Jeff's recent column inspired me to resurrect the topic of controversy and the scientific method, and I recalled Dr. Miley in that discussion.
Miley was an electrostatic fusion researcher before dabbling in CF. He was founding editor of Fusion Technology (now goes by a different name). George was one of the few editors who would seriously look at CF papers. I looked over a few, and they seemed to be mostly by careful researchers. Dr. Miley would visit some of the labs, and even participate in the experiments ... I consider that a far more comprehensive form of peer review than is normally done for journals. He was also doing confirming experiments.
I am not involved in CF research, and can't really comment on the quality, but I will say Dr. Miley was doing far more to confirm the content of CF papers than most editors do to peer review submissions of more accepted work.
Somewhere I may have a pile of Dr. Bussard's old FT journals. If I can find the right box, maybe I can point out a few articles. Somewhere (maybe in FT) I encountered one that documented wholesale (some unambiguous number like 25% of the atoms) of the electrode metal being transmuted in a cell that ran for weeks generating modest net heat, running plain hydrogen, not deuterium.
I've never done calorimetry, but I've done guarded hot plate insulation tests and guarded thermal conductivity tests. Guard techniques (similar to guarded electrodes in very sensitive electrometer work) use a shell around a temperature cell, controlled to match the temperature of the cell, to reduce heat leakage to nearly zero. Most early CF researchers did not do calorimetry this way ... the better later researchers apparently did. It was one thing I could look for to see if they could be taken seriously.
I certainly don't begrudge CF a dribble of funds.
As for Jeff's endorsement, I accept it and thank him for it, but with the knowledge his views will manage to irritate more than one mainstream researcher. Among his favorite subjects ...
Does not believe in AGW (like about 3/4 of this forum)
Thinks modern electrodynamic theory is off due to an error by Grasmann that Lorentz fell for that Maxwell fell for that Einstein fell for.
Does not believe in the Big Bang ... favors a continuous creation model.
What strikes me is the intolerant bigotry that one observes in men of science at times. In the case cited earlier, this professor Miley, a respected figure at a respected, world class university, has conducted an experiment that has yielded interesting results. Based on these results, he acquired further funding; but that funding was held up by someone concerned that it was voodoo science. I have a friend who attended the U of I in Champaign-Urbana and now works at an oil refinery. He notes that fusion will come along in twenty or thirty years with a certain satisfaction, almost as if he's happy to think he'll be dead by then.
It is "intolerant bigotry" that someone responsible for the disposition of money doesn't choose to give it to someone without knowing that it is money well spent?jgarry wrote:What strikes me is the intolerant bigotry that one observes in men of science at times... Based on these results, he acquired further funding; but that funding was held up by someone concerned that it was voodoo science.
Thus is our society so deeply ingrained with a sence of entitlement.
To expect perfection out of men is to be constantly disillusioned.
The guy must have spent a lot of time playing with humans.
for that matter, it is difficult enough to put up with one's own self.
Now that I can relate to.
Simon
============Begin each day by telling yourself: Today I shall be meeting with interference, ingratitude, insolence, disloyalty, ill-will, and selfishness.
- Meditations, Bk. II, Para. 1.
[L]ook at the characters of your own associates. Even the most agreeable of them are difficult to put up with; and for that matter, it is difficult enough to put up with one's own self.
-Meditations, Bk. V, Para. 10.
Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
The guy must have spent a lot of time playing with humans.
for that matter, it is difficult enough to put up with one's own self.
Now that I can relate to.
Simon
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
In theory, cold fusion should be possible. If you consider it from a materials science standpoint, metals have what's known as a conduction band, where the outermost valence electrons are disassociated from the atoms in an electron cloud. If you can get deuterium atoms in the metal lattice in sufficient concentration (because you're not going to do P-P fusion), theoretically the electronics from those Deuterium atoms will also disassociate into the electron cloud of the conduction band, thus reducing the coulomb barrier enough to allow the nuclei to fuse via tunneling effects.
There is much discussion in cold fusion circles about the importance of the metal material that the Deuterium is loaded into.
As I said before, I am skeptical of cold fusion claims in general. But I think the physicists are way off base to causally dismiss it or to claim that current theory does not allow for the possibility of it. If cold fusion is real, it can certainly be explained by current theory.
Miley is a serious researcher. He is at least as credible as Bussard, if not more. Miley has the sole distinction of being both a plasma fusion as well as cold fusion research guy.
Also, if cold fusion is real, the science and technology to create it is very much based on materials science and metallurgy. Both electro-chemists as well as physicists (except for condensed matter physicists) are usually not familiar with this field as well as the analytical characterization techniques that are used in this field.
If cold fusion is real, it is not clear to me that the effect can be scaled up to be commercially useful. If it can, its most likely application is for the cruise mode operation of long distance air transport.
There is much discussion in cold fusion circles about the importance of the metal material that the Deuterium is loaded into.
As I said before, I am skeptical of cold fusion claims in general. But I think the physicists are way off base to causally dismiss it or to claim that current theory does not allow for the possibility of it. If cold fusion is real, it can certainly be explained by current theory.
Miley is a serious researcher. He is at least as credible as Bussard, if not more. Miley has the sole distinction of being both a plasma fusion as well as cold fusion research guy.
Also, if cold fusion is real, the science and technology to create it is very much based on materials science and metallurgy. Both electro-chemists as well as physicists (except for condensed matter physicists) are usually not familiar with this field as well as the analytical characterization techniques that are used in this field.
If cold fusion is real, it is not clear to me that the effect can be scaled up to be commercially useful. If it can, its most likely application is for the cruise mode operation of long distance air transport.
For what its worth, I think AGW is a bunch of horse-pucky. I also think that the Big Bang theory has problems that are slowing being acknowledged by the scientific community. In fact, there is a growing movement among Big Bang researchers that the Big Bang may have been a "local" event and that the universe may be larger than that which resulted from the Big Bang.
There is, of course, the Extended Heim Theory, which has a somewhat different explanation than the Big Bang.
There is, of course, the Extended Heim Theory, which has a somewhat different explanation than the Big Bang.
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alexjrgreen
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm
- Location: UK
See "A Promenade Along Electrodynamics" Chapter 4Tom Ligon wrote:Jeff and I go way back.
[...]
Thinks modern electrodynamic theory is off due to an error by Grasmann that Lorentz fell for that Maxwell fell for that Einstein fell for.
http://www.amazon.com/Promenade-Along-E ... 0971484511
and then try
http://www.andrijar.com/rwoteewdm/index.htm
Ars artis est celare artem.
Re: Cold fusion real?
[quote="Jeff Mauldin"]In Analog magazine, where I and I suspect others first came to know about IEC fusion through Tom Ligon's articles, Jeffrey Koostra penned an "Alternate View" column which basically took the position that cold fusion is now established as a phenomenon beyond all reasonable doubt, and also that it's definitely fusion due to the resulting products.
I'm with Koostra. The experiments done with track etch dosimeters showing large numbers of highly energetic helium impacts are very much convincing. This approach avoids completely the standard disclaimer about detection of neutrons.
I'm with Koostra. The experiments done with track etch dosimeters showing large numbers of highly energetic helium impacts are very much convincing. This approach avoids completely the standard disclaimer about detection of neutrons.
Re: Cold fusion real?
What resulting products? Helium/Alphas? Are my Ionizing smoke detectors then doing Fusion too? How do you conclude Alphas mean Fusion?Warthog wrote:Jeff Mauldin wrote:In Analog magazine, where I and I suspect others first came to know about IEC fusion through Tom Ligon's articles, Jeffrey Koostra penned an "Alternate View" column which basically took the position that cold fusion is now established as a phenomenon beyond all reasonable doubt, and also that it's definitely fusion due to the resulting products.
I'm with Koostra. The experiments done with track etch dosimeters showing large numbers of highly energetic helium impacts are very much convincing. This approach avoids completely the standard disclaimer about detection of neutrons.