10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

Axil wrote:http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/how-ca ... actor.html

Here is a post from the nextbigfuture that shows a positive energy production from NI58 to CU63
So each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
When you go through the calculation, you get positive energy output.
Jonathan Starr wrote: I ran the mass calculations with H = 1.007825032 and all the beta particle included but to no avail there math is correct I got 37.1778MeV the discrepancies being the difference in our mass tables. So despite what they tell you about the curve of binding energy, fusions for elements heavier then Iron can make energy (it surprised me anyway).
That is not PhysRev.
But as I know something like Discovery Channel.

Example:
Once I saw on Discovery about U-2 aircraft. And there was such text: "As U-2 flies at so high altitude there is no missiles in the world might to shot it down". But Soviets done it in 60s or 70s I do not remember. The name of pilot was Powers.
Now I do not watch Discovery.

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Informed speculation is one thing. Stringing scientific words together to make nonsense is different.

i notice you have not replied to my previous comment on nonsense-theory.

Here is comment on the rvised nonsense-theory.
Axil wrote:
TallDave wrote:Rossi, BLP, Brillouin... what is it about nickel?
I believe that three basic factors are required to make a working LENR system.

1-Quantum mechanical coherence (QMC). This is needed to convert nuclear radiation to thermal power and to amplify the effects of the Yukawa potential (also called a screened Coulomb potential). When QMC has not yet been established, the nuclear radiation that is being produced in nuclear reactions at active nuclear sites will escape as gamma and x-ray radiation before it can be transformed into heat energy.
Same as before - is this coherent electrons ar coherent nuclei? Neither is possible at high btemp, but coherent nuclei not possible at any temp.
Nuclear reactions affect atoms in a large assemblage of coherent and entangled atoms by sharing the energy produced in any one member of the QMC assemblage among all its members.
"atoms"? You mean electrons. So, we have, for sake of argument, coherent electron wavefunctions. This is very possible if you pair electrons to make them boson-like. Bose Einstein Condensate is such.
In such a coherent collection, what happens to one member of such a coherent collection happens to them all. An averaging effect takes place where the nuclear energy output of one atom is averaged over a hundred or more atoms in the coherent collection.
Remember, it is electrons that are coherent. Therefore this does not affect nucleons, or nuclear reactions, which happen using different forces, at different spatial scales.
In the Rossi reactor, at startup, a large amount of gamma radiation appears before QMC has established itself because the temperature of the nickel has not gotten to the relatively low Curie temperature (nickel has the Curie temperature of 631 K (~358 C)). Formation of QMC is magnetic in nature.
This does not compute. Why should QMC be magnetic in nature? And why should it be more possible at higher energies? That is the opposite of what is normally the case. Give me some proposed electron wave functions, or spin states, and we will discuss.

To form BEC from electrons you need to form Cooper pairs, but these are easily disturbed through interactions with other parts of system and therefore need very low temperatures.
When nickel is ferromagnetic it cannot join the QMC assemblages. Nickel must first be made paramagnetic by heat to join the QMC assemblage. The QMC amplifies both the nuclear power produced and the heat output conversion of the cold fusion reaction.
pseudo-conclusion based on incorrect facts.
Rydberg matter produces the QMC effect in nickel as Coherent hydrogen molecules are ionically attracted to the surface of the nickel. The strong dipole field of the Rydberg matter produced by a large coherent circulation of electrons with very large dipole moments induces a powerful paramagnetic field in the nickel within a quantum mechanical “blockade” distance of up to a micron.

As the hydrogen envelope grows hot, more nuclear reactions take place in the coherent nickel on the surface of the nickel and more efficient gamma radiation conversion to heat occurs.
Why - even given the incorrect statements on which the whole post is based, why should this be the case?
This is why nuclear ash transmutation products are found imbedded in the surface of the nickel.
Too strong. surface contamnination is very common and would be normal reason for such results. Are the transmutation products with isotopic ratios not normally found in nature? That would be the fact that signified nuclear transmautation rather than contamination. Lack of this is why the science community does not jump on this "transmutation" evidence and get interested.

2 - Yukawa potential – to be supplied

3 – Rydberg matter – to be supplied

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

Axil wrote:http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/how-ca ... actor.html

Here is a post from the nextbigfuture that shows a positive energy production from NI58 to CU63
So each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
When you go through the calculation, you get positive energy output.
Jonathan Starr wrote: I ran the mass calculations with H = 1.007825032 and all the beta particle included but to no avail there math is correct I got 37.1778MeV the discrepancies being the difference in our mass tables. So despite what they tell you about the curve of binding energy, fusions for elements heavier then Iron can make energy (it surprised me anyway).
So, if I get an account at NBF and I post there stating that Rossi reactor does not work, will you quote me? :roll:

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Giorgio wrote:
Axil wrote:http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/how-ca ... actor.html

Here is a post from the nextbigfuture that shows a positive energy production from NI58 to CU63
So each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
When you go through the calculation, you get positive energy output.
Jonathan Starr wrote: I ran the mass calculations with H = 1.007825032 and all the beta particle included but to no avail there math is correct I got 37.1778MeV the discrepancies being the difference in our mass tables. So despite what they tell you about the curve of binding energy, fusions for elements heavier then Iron can make energy (it surprised me anyway).
So, if I get an account at NBF and I post there stating that Rossi reactor does not work, will you quote me? :roll:
No, you'd need to explain why it did not work whilst invoking Rydberg matter miraculously existing at high temp, and stating that paramagnetism is an ultra-powerful phenomena.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

tomclarke wrote:No, you'd need to explain why it did not work whilst invoking Rydberg matter miraculously existing at high temp, and stating that paramagnetism is an ultra-powerful phenomena.
:D

parallel
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by parallel »

For the non-pathological skeptics, here is the news from Defkalion:

Defkalion is preparing industrial E-Cats and currently designing a 3.4MW plant.
Home based E-Cats have a range of 5 - 30kW using the same reactor.
These small units weight 30kg (total) and will cost 4000 - 5000 Euros.
The low temperature units recirculate Glycol, as the heat exchange fluid for temps up to 195C. Some have been under test for "months." They have never seen a lower COP than 19 :usually in the range 20 - 30.
Other coolants using molten salts have been tested, giving a maximum usable temperature of 414C from the secondary circuit. (Edit - Enough for steam at 3000psi).

The public demos used lab prototypes. The production version has been finalized and is under test, including all the electronics. It uses an ultrasonic instrument to measure coolant flow in the closed system and type K thermocouples for temperature. The shielding is 3mm of lead. These units are being tested by three Greek government departments for certification. Production units will be swapped out every 6 months until they gain experience, for safety reasons.

Their test procedure follows http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GrabowskiKrobustperf.pdf and has been adapted for their "mass calorimeter" embedded as a standard in all their products as well as for calibration and testing procedures.

Interested companies from 50 countries will be visiting Defkalion in July and August to do due diligence before possibly signing contracts. The 1 MW plant is still scheduled for October and will be used a a demonstration unit for the technology.


Obviously, Defkalion know whether it works or not....
“When a new truth enters the world, the first stage of reaction is ridicule, the second stage is violent opposition, and in the third stage, that truth comes to be regarded as self-evident.” Arthur Schopenhaurer (1788- 1860)

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

parallel wrote:For the non-pathological skeptics, here is the news from Defkalion:

Defkalion is preparing industrial E-Cats and currently designing a 3.4MW plant.
Home based E-Cats have a range of 5 - 30kW using the same reactor.
These small units weight 30kg (total) and will cost 4000 - 5000 Euros.
The low temperature units recirculate Glycol, as the heat exchange fluid for temps up to 195C. Some have been under test for "months." They have never seen a lower COP than 19 :usually in the range 20 - 30.
Other coolants using molten salts have been tested, giving a maximum usable temperature of 414C from the secondary circuit. (Edit - Enough for steam at 3000psi).

The public demos used lab prototypes. The production version has been finalized and is under test, including all the electronics. It uses an ultrasonic instrument to measure coolant flow in the closed system and type K thermocouples for temperature. The shielding is 3mm of lead. These units are being tested by three Greek government departments for certification. Production units will be swapped out every 6 months until they gain experience, for safety reasons.

Their test procedure follows http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GrabowskiKrobustperf.pdf and has been adapted for their "mass calorimeter" embedded as a standard in all their products as well as for calibration and testing procedures.

Interested companies from 50 countries will be visiting Defkalion in July and August to do due diligence before possibly signing contracts. The 1 MW plant is still scheduled for October and will be used a a demonstration unit for the technology.


Obviously, Defkalion know whether it works or not....
“When a new truth enters the world, the first stage of reaction is ridicule, the second stage is violent opposition, and in the third stage, that truth comes to be regarded as self-evident.” Arthur Schopenhaurer (1788- 1860)
As I am pathological skeptic one dishonest question:
At budget cut background "being tested by three Greek government departments"? Not private companies but Governmental? Greeks have ceased to hold a meeting in streets?
Let's wait.
Thanks for information of Schopenhauer’s date of birth and death. :)

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

@tomclark,
This does not compute. Why should QMC be magnetic in nature? And why should it be more possible at higher energies? That is the opposite of what is normally the case. Give me some proposed electron wave functions, or spin states, and we will discuss.

To form BEC from electrons you need to form Cooper pairs, but these are easily disturbed through interactions with other parts of system and therefore need very low temperatures.
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/fa ... drogen.pdf


Generalized Theory of Bose-Einstein Condensation Nuclear Fusion for Hydrogen-Metal System

Professor Yeong E. Kim

Department of Physics

Purdue University

West Lafayette, Indiana 47907, USA

June 18, 2011

Here is a theory of coherent matter acting in the Rossi process (Generalized theory of Bose-Einstein condensation nuclear fusion (BECNF)) that is composed of entangled hydrogen nuclei and nickel atoms.

Kim also lays out all the nuclear reactions that this coherent system implies…take a look…Tom, what do you think?

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Giorgio wrote:
Axil wrote:When you go through the calculation, you get positive energy output.
Jonathan Starr wrote: I ran the mass calculations with H = 1.007825032 and all the beta particle included but to no avail there math is correct I got 37.1778MeV the discrepancies being the difference in our mass tables. So despite what they tell you about the curve of binding energy, fusions for elements heavier then Iron can make energy (it surprised me anyway).
So, if I get an account at NBF and I post there stating that Rossi reactor does not work, will you quote me? :roll:
Does his conclusion surprise you? He is just saying what I have shown repeatedly... IF the reaction can happen, it releases energy. Adding a proton or neutron to ANYTHING releases energy. (Ok, except for maybe 4He! :) ).

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

KitemanSA wrote:Does his conclusion surprise you? He is just saying what I have shown repeatedly... IF the reaction can happen, it releases energy. Adding a proton or neutron to ANYTHING releases energy. (Ok, except for maybe 4He! :) ).
And if my grandmother would have something
Will become grandfather

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Axil wrote:@tomclark,
This does not compute. Why should QMC be magnetic in nature? And why should it be more possible at higher energies? That is the opposite of what is normally the case. Give me some proposed electron wave functions, or spin states, and we will discuss.

To form BEC from electrons you need to form Cooper pairs, but these are easily disturbed through interactions with other parts of system and therefore need very low temperatures.
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/fa ... drogen.pdf


Generalized Theory of Bose-Einstein Condensation Nuclear Fusion for Hydrogen-Metal System

Professor Yeong E. Kim

Department of Physics

Purdue University

West Lafayette, Indiana 47907, USA

June 18, 2011

Here is a theory of coherent matter acting in the Rossi process (Generalized theory of Bose-Einstein condensation nuclear fusion (BECNF)) that is composed of entangled hydrogen nuclei and nickel atoms.

Kim also lays out all the nuclear reactions that this coherent system implies…take a look…Tom, what do you think?
Kim will develope theory, Rossi will make money

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
....................................................

Kim will develope theory, Rossi will make money
Does jealousy of Rossi inspire your attitude?

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Axil wrote:Does jealousy of Rossi inspire your attitude?
Is there anything for jealousy?

DancingFool
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Location: Way up north

Post by DancingFool »

Axil wrote:http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/how-ca ... actor.html

Here is a post from the nextbigfuture that shows a positive energy production from NI58 to CU63
Sigh. Axil, when are you going to start paying attention?
Andrea Rossi
April 29th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Dear Mr Daniel De Francia:
Yes
Warm regards,
A.R.

Daniel de França MTd2
April 29th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Dr Mr. Rossi,

Concerning the Nickel input in the experiment, do you deplete it of Ni58?

Best,

Daniel.
and
Andrea Rossi
June 2nd, 2011 at 8:23 AM
Dear Dr M.S. Meyers:
The 58-Ni doesn’t work.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

I believe that Ni58 will work but not as well as Rossi wants. Also, Ni58 will produce more gamma emitting byproducts than Rossi wants.


When you deal with quantum mechanics there is no such thing as “doesn’t work”…just low cross sections. For example, two protons will fuse spontaneously but it might take billions of years to happen. A proton will decay to something else but it will take a very long time.


As I said previously, I would optimize the Rossi reactor to burn Ni58 and use tungsten in a closed replaceable reaction chamber module to keep the gamma emitting gamma isotopes contained but I am not as shrewd as Rossi is.


Rossi wants to be politically acceptable to all important parties, to avoid criticism from radiophobs, and avoid any possible dealings with the NRC and other similar international agencies like the IAEA.

When he says that Ni58 ““doesn’t work” he really means that it “doesn’t work” for him as a practical project imperative in his systems, IMHO.

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