Experiments Show Gravity Is Not an Emergent Phenomenon

IntLibber · Post by **IntLibber** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:08 am

the gravity probe experiments prove that gravity conforms to the GR model, its a result of mass which deforms the timespace metric. the plus side of this is that it supports the argument for mach effect thrusts and warps.

GeeGee · Post by **GeeGee** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:16 am

IntLibber wrote:the gravity probe experiments prove that gravity conforms to the GR model, its a result of mass which deforms the timespace metric. the plus side of this is that it supports the argument for mach effect thrusts and warps.

How does GPB support mach effects?

From my understanding, the WMAP result (which showed space is flat on a cosmic scale) is the strongest evidence for Sciama's inertia model, which is a pre-requisite for mach-lorentz thrusters to work.

happyjack27 · Post by **happyjack27** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:40 pm

IntLibber wrote:the gravity probe experiments prove that gravity conforms to the GR model...

... to an accuracy of about 0.5%, with an unstated confidence interval (presumably 99% or at least 95%). at this level of accuracy it clearly says nothing about any possible deviations at the scale where quantum physics effects become non-neglible i.e. this still speaks nothing to the question of how to fuse quantum physics and relativistic physics. it is only another confirmation of relativistic physic's effectiveness for things on an astronomical scale.

EDIT: i was going off of wikipedia. surprisingly, that's not up to date. here's up to date info on the experimental results:

http://einstein.stanford.edu/highlights/status1.html

happyjack27 · Post by **happyjack27** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:47 pm

now for probing gravity on a quantum scale, i found this experiment particularly ingenuous:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13097370

if nothing else, i would think this experiment could give you an extremely precise measurement of the gravitational constant, provided one can control for errors in the controls.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:17 pm

IntLibber wrote:the gravity probe experiments prove that gravity conforms to the GR model, its a result of mass which deforms the timespace metric. the plus side of this is that it supports the argument for mach effect thrusts and warps.

In all honesty the Gravity Probe B experimental results are not worth the paper they are written into.

The whole experiment is short of a joke. It was plagued by so many errors and malfunctions that the collected data had to be hand picked.
Of course during the hand picking process they discarded all the data that was not conforming to the expected model, and than they announced that the results was conforming to the standard model. What a surprise!

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:16 pm

Yeah, that was a shame. It really was an experiment to look forward to.

rcain · Post by **rcain** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:41 am

can anyone recall, the name of that 'proposed' experiment, to measure gravity over great distance, using lasers on an array of deep space probes?

little bit more about Prof. E.P. (Erik) Verlinde - here: http://www.nwo.nl/nwohome.nsf/pages/NWOP_8HKDTS_Eng - he must have one of the best jobs on the planet, providing you're clever enough to do it, which he certainly appears to be ...

i shall certainly give his paper at http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/100 ... 0785v1.pdf a read through, even though its undoubtedly way above me ...
(thanks for the link Georgio).

ps. interesting diagrams used on http://www.dipole.se/ (thanks for the link EricF) - i tried some while ago to produce something similar for describing Polywell dimensionality/solutions - too time consuming and difficult for me to 'prove' in any way - but good to see the same geometry emerge from a similar problem.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:26 am

rcain wrote:can anyone recall, the name of that 'proposed' experiment, to measure gravity over great distance, using lasers on an array of deep space probes?

I think you are referring to LISA, the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Inte ... ce_Antenna

krenshala · Post by **krenshala** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:37 am

Giorgio wrote:
rcain wrote:can anyone recall, the name of that 'proposed' experiment, to measure gravity over great distance, using lasers on an array of deep space probes?
I think you are referring to LISA, the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Inte ... ce_Antenna

Isn't that just LIGO in space?

If it is, I still don't see how it can "detect" gravity waves.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:54 am

Tom,

This is for you:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - Robert A. Heinlein

I have always been into time. It is why I call my business Space-Time Productions.

choff · Post by **choff** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:20 am

I think it's Jupiter that has a powerful electrical field, and a couple of small moons that switch orbits when they periodically close with each other. Some day in the future it might make an interesting experiment to place sensors on these moons and try to measure changes to both the gravity and electric fields when the conjuction occurs.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:05 am

krenshala wrote:Isn't that just LIGO in space?

If it is, I still don't see how it can "detect" gravity waves.

Same concept but LISA should operate at a much lower frequency to detect gravitational waves from black holes.
That is, provided that Gravitational Waves actually exist.

rcain · Post by **rcain** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:13 am

Giorgio wrote:...
I think you are referring to LISA, the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Inte ... ce_Antenna

ah, thanks Giorgio, that was the one.

i see its been cancelled by the Yanks.

so far as i can tell, LISA, or something like it, hasn't been entirely ruled out yet by the other funding body ESA. From their website:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1IQAMS7F_index_0.html wrote:...
All the candidate missions are now competing in an assessment cycle which ends in 2011. Before the end of the cycle, there will be an important selection foreseen in 2009. The candidate missions described here will also compete with the LISA gravitational wave observer, the other candidate for the 2018 launch slot. At the end of this process, two missions will be proposed for implementation to ESA's Science Programme Committee, with launches planned for 2017 and 2018 respectively.

... but what if it doesn't pick up anything. not a bleep. - that's an awful lot of expensive kit in space, worth nothing. makes sense to try and ride it on the back of something else.

(idea: maybe stow it (part of it) aboard ESA's 'Cross-scale, deeper study of near-earth space' mission - requires multiple satellites anyway).

rcain · Post by **rcain** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:33 am

krenshala wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
rcain wrote:can anyone recall, the name of that 'proposed' experiment, to measure gravity over great distance, using lasers on an array of deep space probes?
I think you are referring to LISA, the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Inte ... ce_Antenna
Isn't that just LIGO in space?

If it is, I still don't see how it can "detect" gravity waves.

interestingly, i can't see any news from LIGO since about 2002! what have they been doing with all that time and money? you'd have thought they'd have picked up something, the sun, the moon, anything... anyone heard of any results?

there have got to be pretty strong predictions on 'scale' in such an experiment - i don't see the logic in having both LIGO and LISA. where's it justified?