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bk78 wrote: KitemanSA wrote:To me, the prhase "undetectable" implys consistent with background, and in the same magnitude. Are you detecting it, or background?
Increasing IT 100X might take it to ~100X background.
Perhaps "indistinguishable" would be a better word.
100X detection limit does not mean 100X background radiation (for a person standing next to it). Do you agree, or should I explain it a 3rd time?
Increasing something that is just under "background" by business headache standards by 100X takes it well over "background" by business headache standards, and therefore a potential business headache, or must I explain it for a fourth time?
bk78 wrote: KitemanSA wrote: Reducing the concentration 3X need not mean the radiation output goes down only 3X. I suspect there are non-linearities involved.
Please explain how the Ni-58 nuclei know of each other so that there can be nonlinearities. Do they know about the generated copper, too? (And the iron?)
This is in a crystal lattice. It is often theorized that it is being driven by large conglomerations of particles. What sticking unwanted particles into that conglomeration might do to said conglomeration is unknown to me. but I do not presume to "know" that it is linear. Indeed, VERY FEW things in nature are linear. So having non-linear effect is the norm, to me.
bk78 wrote: KitemanSA wrote: And the reason for reducing it by 3X may have nothing to do with radiation. Don't get too hooked on one possible reason.
It was one of the two possibilities you gave why Rossi enriches the Nickel. Do you finally agree it makes no sense?
No.
bk78 wrote: KitemanSA wrote: Having said that... as I understand IC, the event does not carry away ALL the excitation energy, just a set part of it. The remained would still be emitted as a photon. TECHNICALLY, by definition, that photon would be a gamma. PRACTICALLY, that photon could be in the X-ray band. X-rays can be quite easily shielded.
nuclear internal conversion means, the energy is emitted as beta radiation instead of a gamma quant, with the electron carrying ALL the energy. No energy is split. We would see a sharp 6MeV beta spectrum.
For clarity, and to be technical, it is NOT beta radiation. It is an shell electron that has a probablistic chance of being inside the nucleus when the reaction occurs and can be accelerated to a set value of energy. The same concept, that of having an electron available to carry off the excitation energy, may change if the electron is not coming from the atom's electron shells, but from some conglomerate particle (BEC of cooper pairs, excort electron, what have you). I don't presume to know what isn't known about this subject.
bk78 wrote: chemical internal conversion means, to cite wikipedia:
"Internal conversion is a transition from a higher to a lower electronic state in a molecule or atom"
There is no state of the nickel shell that is capable of holding 6 MeV, THUS THERE IS NO CHEMICAL INTERNAL CONVERSION.
??? Who ever said it was chamical internal conversion? Can you say "strawman"?
bk78 wrote: Even if it the electrons from the nickel would take as much energy away as they could, there would still be MeVs left. And even if the energy was evenly shared among the nickels electrons, then the shielding would be more effective, but radiation would still be millions of times above detection limit.
Not sure what you are saying, but if you are thinking chemical IC, readjust your think back to nuclear.
bk78 wrote: To stress it once more: You are not looking for a process that works sometimes, but for one that shields the beta and/or gamma with a propability of at least 99,9999999%.
And if the posited reaction is in fact happening, there should
always be an electron available to carry away a large portion of the excitation energy. How many "nines" equal "always", I wouldn't guess, but near certainty.
bk78 wrote: KitemanSA wrote: Re #2, I did not intend to imply ZERO radiation, just nothing that changes background with sufficient scale to stop being considered "background" level.
Nitpicking. From my comment, is clear that this is what I meant.
No, I don't think we are meeting minds. You seem to think that Rossi is looking for no, zero, nyet, nada, zip, cyffr, none, whatever word you wish to use, radiation. You keep using long strings of nines as zero. I suspect he is accepting of maybe as high as 25% or there abouts the local background level. These are TOTALLY different things.