US Condemns Bomb Attack on Iran Nuclear Scientist

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:08 pm

The "right" to accuse? Either you murder or you don't. There's no "right" to call something for what it is without which your "accusation" is less true. Each instance of nuclear or chemical warfare must be assessed in its context. Otherwise it's just philosophy. Nagasaki and Hiroshima are not exactly straight & level comparisons with even admittedly more gut wrenching instances of napalm and defoliants in VN.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:23 pm

Betruger wrote:The "right" to accuse? Either you murder or you don't. There's no "right" to call something for what it is without which your "accusation" is less true. Each instance of nuclear or chemical warfare must be assessed in its context. Otherwise it's just philosophy. Nagasaki and Hiroshima are not exactly straight & level comparisons with even admittedly more gut wrenching instances of napalm and defoliants in VN.

Philosophy is in that, sometimes you can not defend yourself with cleen hands. Collateral damage is the common therm for militaries. The second "philosophy point" - the history of each country is dirty and bloody. Who can say that this point does not regard to his country? Aslan? You? Anybody else?
You need context for discussing? You can discuss who is right and who wrong? Or Aslan can? I answer you - nobody can.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:48 pm

I think you both need to stop misusing the term "philosophy".

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:23 pm

We understand each other.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:42 am

GIThruster wrote:I think you both need to stop misusing the term "philosophy".

I need nothing in this case. The term "philosophy" isn't a sacred cow for me. As well as any other term. And I am granting to myself the right to treat any term freely. In this case I simply tried to express the thought more clearly. That often is not so easy, taking into consideration my bad English.

What do you think when the manufacturer of e.g. vacuum cleaners speaks about the revolutionary philosophy put in their new product?

Aslan · Post by **Aslan** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:29 pm

Persian Leader: Iran to continue on progress path despite pressures

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/224635.html

Iran's defense ministry: new space products on agenda

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/224652.html

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:13 pm

Aslan wrote:Persian Leader: Iran to continue on progress path despite pressures

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/224635.html

Completely empty rhetoric. Come on Young Lion, the man said nothing of substance. To wit: "We are great, really, because I tell you, we are great!"

Iran's defense ministry: new space products on agenda

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/224652.html

which leads with:

Iran's Defense Minister hails as a “brilliant achievement” the launch of the country's new fully-indigenous satellite into orbit, saying Iran will unveil new space achievements.

And where would Iran be without rocket and other technology provided by Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan? Where would Iran be without technology it has stolen from other countries?

Fully indigenous! You really believe that??? Come on.

So how about this one: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/224620.html

It would appear that when the UN HR Commission writes a report about wrong doing in say the UK or US, or Israel they are vaunted paragons of justice and dignity, however when they post something about Iran, they are a pack of Western Puppets who lie and decieve.

It is really sad that you blindly take everything PressTV posts as "The True Word of God." You can do better than that. Open your mind, question, compare, think independantly.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:15 pm

ladajo wrote:And where would Iran be without rocket and other technology provided by Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan? Where would Iran be without technology it has stolen from other countries

About 6-8 years ago Iranians actively bought 30-40 years old lathes, milling machines, etc. (Soviet era machines) from e.g. my country. Especially they hunted on large size lathes. One Iranian company tries to enter in Filament Winding Machines market. Having good pumps and valves it would not be a problem to make liquid rocket motor or if you have propellant powder making technology to try to make solid rocket motor.
Another question is how reliable those rockets will be? As except of capability of making you also should have elementary manufacturing discipline and also the knowledge what factors make influence on reliability.
But theoretically rocket technologies are well known and in case of spending enough resources: both - financial and human, it would not be a big problem.
Yes, may be those motors will have much less specific momentum. As also not all advanced materials are avaliable for them. But they will fly.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:27 pm

And it really helps when someone "sells" you a couple of "High Tech" rockets, that you can then take apart and use as a basis to build your own.

Remember, we are not only talking motors here. We are talking guidance, payload, etc.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:31 pm

Young Lion,
What do you think of this:

The BBC's director general has accused the Iranian authorities of intimidating those working for its Persian service.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16874177

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:35 pm

ladajo wrote:And it really helps when someone "sells" you a couple of "High Tech" rockets, that you can then take apart and use as a basis to build your own.

Remember, we are not only talking motors here. We are talking guidance, payload, etc.

Nobody sold rockets to S.P.Korol'ov. Nevertheless Soviets have developed their own technology. Recall that was after devastating war.
All is possible in case of sufficient financial and human resources. May be Russians or North Koreans will not sell technology officially. But many retried engineers are unemploied in Russia in this moment.
Iranians need not payload but need warhead.
They have already developed missiles capable to reach Israel territory, the second goal is to reach Europe and then at the following stage to reach USA.
Payload? Not payload but their famous and "peaceful" warhead.
They are already going underground enrichment.
Or anybody believes that Iranians are going to develop their own GPS? Or some researches on climate change? Or crystal growing experiments? Or something else?
Can anybody mention any their non-military program?

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:52 pm

Nobody sold rockets to S.P.Korol'ov. Nevertheless Soviets have developed their own technology. Recall that was after devastating war.

I believe that they got a leg up from unfortunate former German engineers and scientists, just like the US. But it does not hurt that you have viable material to start with. Nobody has ever said that Soviet engineers and scientists are stupid. Imagine what couldhave been if they were not limited by the system they operated in. Good chance we (mankind) would already be on Mars and in the asteroid belt. But the counter-argument to that could be without the POL-MIL competion, military driven technical advances would have been slower. Hard telling, not knowing.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:39 pm

I believe that they got a leg up from unfortunate former German engineers and scientists, just like the US.

Famous quote"Our Germans are better than their Germans".

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:55 am

ladajo wrote:I believe that they got a leg up from unfortunate former German engineers and scientists, just like the US.

At least Verner von Brown, his top engineers and many drafts initially hidden by Brown were at USA side.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:23 pm

At least Verner von Brown, his top engineers and many drafts initially hidden by Brown were at USA side.

Yes, but the Russians got some too. I have to look it up again, but I do remember it quite well.