10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[chrismb]

Is that the Forest Clump theory?

[Axil]

Is that the Forest Clump theory?

A kinetic theory for the anomalous heating of ions from energy stored in magnetic turbulence imposes self-consistency through the constitutive relations between particle distributions and fields. A turbulent Kirchhoff’s Law expresses a direct connection between rates of ion heating and electron thermal transport. This connection arises from the kinematics of electron motion along turbulent fields, which results in a granular structures in the electron distribution. The drag exerted on these structures through emission into collective modes mediates an effective ambipolar constraint on transport.

Resonant damping of the collective modes by ions produces heating sufficient to account for the observed twofold rise in ion temperature during sawtooth events in experimental discharges. 2001 American Institute of Physics.

The behavior of ions in the polywell should inspire many experts in ion phenomena to converse here.

I admit I am no expert on this subject and would solicit your expertise as pertains to this issue.

[chrismb]

...A kinetic theory for the anomalous heating of ions from energy stored in magnetic turbulence imposes self-consistency through the constitutive relations between particle distributions and fields. A turbulent Kirchhoff’s Law expresses a direct connection between rates of ion heating and electron thermal transport. This connection arises from the kinematics of electron motion along turbulent fields, which results in a granular structures in the electron distribution. The drag exerted on these structures through emission into collective modes mediates an effective ambipolar constraint on transport.....

I admit I am no expert on this subject and would solicit your expertise as pertains to this issue.

Sorry, not sure I can help. AIP or otherwise, it sounds like buulshyte to me.

[Axil]

The formation principle of an electron plasmoid is the basis for the production of dense_plasma_focus and Field-Reversed Configurations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_plasma_focus

I am surprised that it sounds like it buulshyte to you

[Giorgio]

Is that the Forest Clump theory?

A kinetic theory for the anomalous heating of ions from energy stored in magnetic turbulence imposes self-consistency through the constitutive relations between particle distributions and fields. A turbulent Kirchhoff’s Law expresses a direct connection between rates of ion heating and electron thermal transport. This connection arises from the kinematics of electron motion along turbulent fields, which results in a granular structures in the electron distribution. The drag exerted on these structures through emission into collective modes mediates an effective ambipolar constraint on transport.

Resonant damping of the collective modes by ions produces heating sufficient to account for the observed twofold rise in ion temperature during sawtooth events in experimental discharges. 2001 American Institute of Physics.

The behavior of ions in the polywell should inspire many experts in ion phenomena to converse here.

I admit I am no expert on this subject and would solicit your expertise as pertains to this issue.

According what wicked logic you take a plasma theory and apply it to the Rossi device? This is not a plasma reactor for God sake.
It really makes no sense.

[Giorgio]

...A kinetic theory for the anomalous heating of ions from energy stored in magnetic turbulence imposes self-consistency through the constitutive relations between particle distributions and fields. A turbulent Kirchhoff’s Law expresses a direct connection between rates of ion heating and electron thermal transport. This connection arises from the kinematics of electron motion along turbulent fields, which results in a granular structures in the electron distribution. The drag exerted on these structures through emission into collective modes mediates an effective ambipolar constraint on transport.....

I admit I am no expert on this subject and would solicit your expertise as pertains to this issue.

Sorry, not sure I can help. AIP or otherwise, it sounds like buulshyte to me.

If it smells like and sounds like it probably is.

[raphael]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8VMmOj0EJa8/T ... ezione.bmp

That's a very cute rendering but perhaps overly creative.

It's been said that the nickel/catalyst charge of powder only lasts ~6 months. So, if the apparatus were configured as drawn, the "semi-annual" process of swapping out the reactor would require a major teardown and rebuild of the whole apparatus.

If, OTOH, the reactor could be slipped in from one end and/or dropped in from the top, the swapout would be greatly facilitated....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nMtNwAYjpSM/T ... vealed.jpg

[raphael]

Can there be any doubt regarding who has the prettiest reactor?

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2008/07/ ... ght.03.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nMtNwAYjpSM/T ... vealed.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He who has the prettiest reactor gets the prettiest girl???

http://randomoverload.com/wp-content/up ... =450&h=536

[Axil]

Is that the Forest Clump theory?

A kinetic theory for the anomalous heating of ions from energy stored in magnetic turbulence imposes self-consistency through the constitutive relations between particle distributions and fields. A turbulent Kirchhoff’s Law expresses a direct connection between rates of ion heating and electron thermal transport. This connection arises from the kinematics of electron motion along turbulent fields, which results in a granular structures in the electron distribution. The drag exerted on these structures through emission into collective modes mediates an effective ambipolar constraint on transport.

Resonant damping of the collective modes by ions produces heating sufficient to account for the observed twofold rise in ion temperature during sawtooth events in experimental discharges. 2001 American Institute of Physics.

The behavior of ions in the polywell should inspire many experts in ion phenomena to converse here.

I admit I am no expert on this subject and would solicit your expertise as pertains to this issue.

According what wicked logic you take a plasma theory and apply it to the Rossi device? This is not a plasma reactor for God sake.
It really makes no sense.

By looking at the oscilloscope monitoring the input power, astute observers of the Rossi demo’s have seen input power sent from the control box to the Cat-E in regular bursts. The only place that this burst input power could be going is the internal heater. The conjecture is that this type of power feed is tailored to form hydrogen plasma on or near the filament of the internal heater.

[KitemanSA]

It's been said that the nickel/catalyst charge of powder only lasts ~6 months. So, if the apparatus were configured as drawn, the "semi-annual" process of swapping out the reactor would require a major teardown and rebuild of the whole apparatus.

Couldn't you just install a valve on the up-pipe in the chamber, open the valve, pour the powder out and pour new stuff in? Seems simple enough to me.

[Axil]

It's been said that the nickel/catalyst charge of powder only lasts ~6 months. So, if the apparatus were configured as drawn, the "semi-annual" process of swapping out the reactor would require a major teardown and rebuild of the whole apparatus.

Couldn't you just install a valve on the up-pipe in the chamber, open the valve, pour the powder out and pour new stuff in? Seems simple enough to me.

The large amount of iron (10%) found in Rossi ash is proof that the nickel powder is in contract with stainless steel. Rossi said that the iron was produced by scrubbing.

The nickel powder must be tightly affixed to the stainless steel walls of the reaction vessel.

Also from the patent:

[0056] Nickel is coated in a copper tube 100, including a heating electric resistance 101, adjusted and controlled by a controlling thermostat (not shown) adapted to switch off said resistance 101 as nickel is activated by hydrogen contained in a bottle 107.

[D Tibbets]

So, what is wrong with Ni Teknik's trials?

Well, an amp meter is useful for measuring current, but it tells you nothing about the power (Watts) unless you also include the Volts.
A step up transformer could be in the control box. If the step up was 10X, the same power through the wire to the 'reactor' wold have 10X less current, but 10X greater voltage. In the reactor a small step down transformer could provide more heating amps to a resister, and the small transformer inefficiency wouldn't hurt as that also would produce heat. Again the thermometer can be calibrated to within 1 millionth of a degree, but it means little if you don't know how heat is flowing inside the machine. Apparently these machines output some steam and a little water, with presumably a modest water inflow. They assumed this output liquid water was condensed, but without looking inside they couldn't know whether this was bypassed water. And if the water flow was modest, it wouldn't take much bypass to suggest much larger heating power output.
Some water dripping out and some steam escaping into the air that is not measured for temperature and mass means there is no real measurement of total heat output.

Even my cursory consideration reveals 2-3 different aspects that could allow for large manipulation of the claimed results.


[EDIT] Actually, with the stepped up voltage, no subsequent step down transformer would be needed, just an adjustment in the Ohmic resistance of the resister- either the obvious one outside the pipe or one inside.

My argument about the Amp measurements and the absent Volt measurements is based on the assumption that they claim the input volts equals line voltage,. That needs to be confirmed before anything else, and does not require $300 of calorimetry equipment, but only an under $10 Voltmeter.

Dan Tibbets

Why don't you read the reports before making your comments?

"I personally did measurements: weighing water and hydrogen, measuring current and voltage, checking water flow at output, checking vapor flow," Lewan said.

I finally got around to answering your critism. I reread the article, and there is no mention of voltage measurements, , especially no localized measurements.
Quotes from the article:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_m ... 166552.ece


"The ammeter used to measure the input current, from which the total power consumption is calculated, were calibrated by us against other instruments."

Only amp measurements is mentioned. They report they calculated watts, but they don't say whether it was done with measured volts (at the same point in the circuit where the amps were measured) or if they assumed line voltage.

Also:
"The probe, which sits just below the outlet of the energy catalyzer, later during the test showed temperatures of about 100.5 degrees centigrade."

Therefore it cannot reasonably be in contact with water, thus there should be only water vapor (steam) at the outlet."

They assume wet steam cannot be over 100 degrees C , so the 100.5 temperature must be coming from dry steam- implying that all of the water was vaporized. But, it wouldn't take much of a restriction to raise the local pressure to that boiling point of water. Even local high barometric pressure may suffice(?). Any pressure consideration was not accounted for, so this is another area where the results could be off. Considering the high heat of vaporization for water (100 Cal/ Gram of water) the assumption of dry steam may introduce considerable error.

Do you have a link where accurate and appropriate voltage AND current measurements are reported?
Even the mentioned $200 wall mount watt meter would do.

Dan Tibbets

[chrismb]

Only amp measurements is mentioned. They report they calculated watts, but they don't say whether it was done with measured volts (at the same point in the circuit where the amps were measured) or if they assumed line voltage.

Dan,

Now you're being daft! ( )

They measure the water flow rate by measuring it into a beaker for a few seconds to get a flow rate, then attaching the hose to the gadget.

So, obviously, they measure volts across the heating element, then attach the power leads and measure current.

( )

[parallel]

D Tibbets,

Note I wrote reports - plural.

It HAS been reported that the voltage was measured for each of the various trials.

I know posters on this blog like to pretend everybody involved with the E-Cat are idiots and while the experiments could have been conducted to rule out some fraud, the purpose of the demo was to show it worked and give some idea of the surplus energy generated. I doubt any experiment would convince the hardcore skeptics, so why bother?

[chrismb]

I know posters on this blog like to pretend everybody involved with the E-Cat are idiots

No need for us to pretend they are idiots.

I doubt any experiment would convince the hardcore skeptics, so why bother?

Two points here:

A) We aaaaalllready went over this. ***THERE HAS NOT YET BEEN AN *EXPERIMENT*.***
(remember?: Experiments have methodologies, details of equipment used, protocols, a rationale for the configuration of the test procedure, hypotheses to prove/disprove, all with enough detail that anyone can repeat it, and after all that you get results with conclusions that argue for the direction of future work.)

B) There are no 'hardcore sceptics' here, whatever that means, but presuming it means unchangeable from being a sceptic then clearly it is not people here else we'd not be talking about fusion energy. Here, there are only; 'sceptics'.