Re: More Helion Energy news....
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:52 pm
a discussion forum for Polywell fusion
https://talk-polywell.org/bb/
That's very plausible but not completely obvious. Even 1% better on a 100Mw plant could justify a lot of refrigeration, couldn't it? Guess it depends how close to a heat source the coils have to be, etc.
They did trade studies for that on their 50 MW generator design and the cryo plant would hurt the energy balance compared to their simple non cryogenic magnets. Plus startup times are really long that way (or you have to keep the thing running all the time even when the generator is not producing power). Their whole idea is to load follow really well, with multiple smaller generators in a cluster that can startup quickly to even replace gas turbines.RERT wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:17 amThat's very plausible but not completely obvious. Even 1% better on a 100Mw plant could justify a lot of refrigeration, couldn't it? Guess it depends how close to a heat source the coils have to be, etc.
But really I was getting at the possibility of much different fusion conditions with higher fields. Could pB11 become feasible? Or do they already have a plan for pB11?
Well, their generators are making their own He3 and it will be relatively quick. All they need is Deuterium to make it. They can make one Helion and more than two (could be as much as 2.9) Tritons for every two D-D reactions. I would trade the Tritium for Helium3 on the market. Might even make a slight profit off of that. He3 is 27,000/gram and Tritium is about 30,000/gram (though prices fluctuate for both).
My understanding was that they they would only run a D-D chain, extract the T side product an let it naturally decay into 3He that will be reinjected into the fusion process once in a while.Skipjack wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:27 amAnyway, from what I understand, they will have several operation modes for the generator. One that promotes He3/T production and one that produces more power through D-He3 reactions. They will likely run the former more in the beginning to build a He3/T inventory and then switch to the latter.
Here is a good starting point for that they are doing
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/ ... ESCRIPTION
Check out their patent that I linked. They can have a Li blanket to produce more T. They talk about it in the patent. They don't have to store the T for decades. They can just trade it for He3.Giorgio wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:56 amMy understanding was that they they would only run a D-D chain, extract the T side product an let it naturally decay into 3He that will be reinjected into the fusion process once in a while.Skipjack wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:27 amAnyway, from what I understand, they will have several operation modes for the generator. One that promotes He3/T production and one that produces more power through D-He3 reactions. They will likely run the former more in the beginning to build a He3/T inventory and then switch to the latter.
Here is a good starting point for that they are doing
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/ ... ESCRIPTION
After all the T production has to be strongly limited to make the reactor economical viable, especially because Tritium has a half life of 12 years in it's decay process to 3He. If large quantities of T will be produced, storage costs could become an important (negative) economic factor in the overall balance of running such a fusion plant.
Yeah, mining the Moon for He3 is not a particularly good idea in the first place. I hear the gas giants might be a better target for that.kurt9 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:09 pmOne thing successful commercialization of Helion will do is to put away all of those schemes for mining the Moon for He3. Why go to the expense and hassle of mining the Moon when you can just breed your own He3?
I wonder if Robert Zubrin is aware of Helion Energy.
The way to get 3He from Tritium is through natural decay with a rate of around 5.5% year of starting Tritium mass.Skipjack wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:05 pmCheck out their patent that I linked. They can have a Li blanket to produce more T. They talk about it in the patent. They don't have to store the T for decades. They can just trade it for He3.
https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/com ... roduction/
Yes, it decays to He3, but as you say that is a relatively slow process. We do have solutions for the long term storage of Tritium, but I am not sure how economic it is. That is why I think that it is better to just sell the Tritium and buy more He3 with the money. They are both about the same price (with He3 being slightly cheaper usually). So I don't see anything speaking against that until maybe the market for Tritium is saturated. Though right now, we are running into a huge Tritium shortage which will likely get worse with the many D-T fusion experiments that are coming online.Giorgio wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:53 amThe way to get 3He from Tritium is through natural decay with a rate of around 5.5% year of starting Tritium mass.
If they plan to "mine" 3He out of Tritium storage they will need quite a big and complex storage/processing facility. But if they can make DD fusion economical, than going through Tritium processing to extract 3He for electrical power generation does not make much sense.
That's what I mean.