Reactor Dome blown away.
If it makes you feel better, the ABWR designs and builds are much better.KitemanSA wrote:Actually, look more like an "anti stupid" bias. There are certain things in the nuclear industry that are just plain STUPID. Not having back-up syustems on "temporary" storage is one of them. Expecially when "temporary" is 40 to 60 years... or longer.Skipjack wrote:Choff, that paper is clearly showing its anit nuclear agenda. Whatever they say should be taken with a grain of salt.
I am about as pro-nuke as it can be, but even I can be anti STUPID nuke. This style plant is STUPID nuke.
There have been many improvements since the Mark I. However, the lifespan of nuclear plants (and lots of other things) is long when compared to advances in technology.
God, how much worse do you want it to get? Are you just a will full idiot or do your really mean that?Unless things get much worse, I would rather have a picknick there in a few weeks from now than live a life near a coal power plant.
I'll buy you a ticket to Japan, and you can send me a picture of your picnic set-up with that steaming pile of radioactive debris heaped in the background and the big crap eating grin on your face.
This is an absolute disaster for nuclear and if you can't see that you probably shouldn't be commenting ... I worked in nuclear.
Shale gas looks like it will put coal on the back burner for a few centuries anyway, so you can rest your fevered, coal-covered brow.
Japs can't be trusted with this tech., when push come to shove they dropped the ball massively. They had some breathing room to get the cooling back-up and they couldn't do it, end of story. Too regimented, too blinkered, too bureacratic and rule-bound, can't improvise, couldn't understand it ... who knows what ... its a big fecking, uncontained, smoking, radiating mess now that is without argument.
Well, we will see about how bad it really is in the end. So far the radiation levels have reduced to levels that are not dangerous (if you are exposed for a limited amount of time). 400 microsieverts per hour is not a great health risk. Of course if radiation lvels stay that high, you should not decide to build a house right there, but I never said that.
We will also see about the rest of your comment.
Yes it is a desaster for nuclear, no question about it. It also is a public relations desaster for nuclear that will affect the future of all of us for decades. Unless a miracle happens and Polywell, Focus fusion or god darn Rossies thing turns out to be real, we will all have to live with a lot more polution thanks to many more coal powered plants that we will need due to all the nuclear plants being closed down.
That is a future that I do not like picturing.
We will also see about the rest of your comment.
Yes it is a desaster for nuclear, no question about it. It also is a public relations desaster for nuclear that will affect the future of all of us for decades. Unless a miracle happens and Polywell, Focus fusion or god darn Rossies thing turns out to be real, we will all have to live with a lot more polution thanks to many more coal powered plants that we will need due to all the nuclear plants being closed down.
That is a future that I do not like picturing.
what a racist post. And idiotic too. I wonder how efficient americans would be with their nuclear powerplants after a massive 9.0 earthquake and a huge tsunami leaving thousands of dead people and the whole infrastructure around the powerplants in shambles.icarus wrote: Japs can't be trusted with this tech., when push come to shove they dropped the ball massively. They had some breathing room to get the cooling back-up and they couldn't do it, end of story. Too regimented, too blinkered, too bureacratic and rule-bound, can't improvise, couldn't understand it ... who knows what ... its a big fecking, uncontained, smoking, radiating mess now that is without argument.
No need to wonder. We saw American crisis management in New Orleans a few years back. On balance, I'd say that the Japanese are handling the crisis about a million times better than we handled that one.
Remember that there are three distinct disasters happening here, all at once. Earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear reactor incident. From our perspective it seems like the reactor is the only and most pressing problem, but they have roughly 400k people to feed and shelter, survivors to look for and infrastructure to rebuild while simultaneously working on this reactor issue.
So far there have been no Michael Brown analogues. Everyone is doing their best to pull the situation back together.
Remember that there are three distinct disasters happening here, all at once. Earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear reactor incident. From our perspective it seems like the reactor is the only and most pressing problem, but they have roughly 400k people to feed and shelter, survivors to look for and infrastructure to rebuild while simultaneously working on this reactor issue.
So far there have been no Michael Brown analogues. Everyone is doing their best to pull the situation back together.
Play whatever PC card you got (pretty lame one dude), I'm just calling like I see it. Japs are real good at some things, chip manufacture, minutarisation, elaborate imitations, etc .... other things like practicalities in a crises is not a strong point, its just a fact, grow up and face the realities. Calling out cultural differences is not always so easily labelled "racism" unless you are being unnecessarily hysterical or just using it to undermine the messenger.what a racist post. And idiotic too.
You want to hear something really idiotic, half of japan is on 50Hz power and the other half is on 60Hz ... so they cannot easily divert power from where it is in surplus to where it is needed .... some systems are doomed to failure from their flawed fundamental foundations
Not correct.icarus wrote:You want to hear something really idiotic, half of japan is on 50Hz power and the other half is on 60Hz ... so they cannot easily divert power from where it is in surplus to where it is needed .... some systems are doomed to failure from their flawed fundamental foundations
They have 4 plants that operate a back to back frequency conversion and that also operate as energy exchange nodes for the electricity network. Exchange of power and network balance is straightforward and as easy as in any other nation, even if 2 different frequencies are involved.
And SBWRs are better yet and ESBWRs are even more so and they are ALL "STUPID technology".ladajo wrote:If it makes you feel better, the ABWR designs and builds are much better.KitemanSA wrote: .... This style plant is STUPID nuke.
Any technology that causes the need to store MASSIVE amounts of "waste" that is the combination of short lived fusion products and long lived actinides is JPS (just plain stupid). All solid core reactors do that unless reprocessed, but reprocessing such fuel isolates material for WMD. Using U235/U239 solid fuel is JPS. Go liquid Thorium, dude. (E.G., molten salt (U233/T232) reactor) with continuous on-line processing to remove the fission products).
Last edited by KitemanSA on Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Obviously, review and improve. Continuous Process Improvement...
Apply the basic rules of survivability, seperation and redundancy of toughened systems.
And redundancy is NOT X identical pumps in a row. Redundancy is X sets of pumps using different technologies, each set of which can do the job. Seperation is not X back-up sources in X number of identical side-by-side rooms. It is said back-ups in X different rooms widely spaced in horizontal and vertical position with different support structure designs....
Apply the basic rules of survivability, seperation and redundancy of toughened systems.
And redundancy is NOT X identical pumps in a row. Redundancy is X sets of pumps using different technologies, each set of which can do the job. Seperation is not X back-up sources in X number of identical side-by-side rooms. It is said back-ups in X different rooms widely spaced in horizontal and vertical position with different support structure designs....
And how long do you want to spin that? How much more expensive do you want to make nuclear power? Because more and more complex systems cost money. More complexity also introduces more failure modes that mean more maintenance and higher operating cost. Sooner or later you will reach the point of diminishing returns.
Lets also not forget that this reactors was 40 years old, pre Chernobyl and pre TMI.
Lets also not forget that this reactors was 40 years old, pre Chernobyl and pre TMI.