10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[303]

Really really ironic for you to say that Kite. I mean.... For all your defense of Rossi? After all these years of his stage antics? What do we have to show for it?

Nothing but hot air.

hot air would be an improvement

to be fair to kiteman, I think he is trying hard to be agnostic and sit on the fence a bit until such time there is proof either way, but this is a bit of a cowardly position imo, ok to do at the start, but 4 years , an ever changing story later, previous fraud conviction, non working capacitors, mystery colonels, and finally the great ecat firesale (swedes only) ... just pick a side already??

[KitemanSA]

Really really ironic for you to say that Kite. I mean.... For all your defense of Rossi? After all these years of his stage antics? What do we have to show for it?

Nothing but hot air.

First, I challenge you to find where I have defended Rossi rather than required accusers to provide proof of their charges. I consider that defense of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

Second, "nothing but hot air"... isn't that what he has been promising?

[KitemanSA]

Kite,
I don't think who the patient is actually matters for what I was saying. But if you don't get it, the patient is Rossi's Ecat public reputation. He let Kullander have a go, as he thought Kullander would prop him up and help cure his cancer. Kullander got no joy on the testing, and decided not to say anything about the fail. The Doctors decided not to tell the public the cancer is still there.
If you don't see issue with that, then god help you.

Whew, a tad convoluted, but... nope, don't see it.
Best I can see analogy wise is that a patient goes to a doctor to have a test to prove he doesn't have cancer and the doctor is unable to do the test so says nothing. Perhaps it is your PRESUMPTION of a cancer that is the TRUE illness here?

[seedload]

Really really ironic for you to say that Kite. I mean.... For all your defense of Rossi? After all these years of his stage antics? What do we have to show for it?

Nothing but hot air.

First, I challenge you to find where I have defended Rossi rather than required accusers to provide proof of their charges. I consider that defense of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

Continually excusing the absurd with fanciful alternate explanations is defense, whether you recognize it or not.

You fail to realize that the real absurdity of Rossi is in the crushing weight of the sum of the ridiculous, not in each particular epoch fail. By excusing each individual apparent misstep, failure, and untruth as a 'potential' misunderstanding, simple oversight, or miraculous achievement, you are dismissing the whole of the situation and acting as an agent of his almost certain deception.

So Superman, Mr. Truth Justice and the American way, is your defense of "truth" really going to be defending the most overt liar, Rossi, by demanding incontrovertible facts from actually honest people who are doing nothing more than pointing out glaring inconsistencies in his story? Thank God we are just dealing with Rossi here... I mean... imagine what an actually intelligent villain like Lex Luther could accomplish with you as Superman.

[ladajo]

Kite,
I don't think who the patient is actually matters for what I was saying. But if you don't get it, the patient is Rossi's Ecat public reputation. He let Kullander have a go, as he thought Kullander would prop him up and help cure his cancer. Kullander got no joy on the testing, and decided not to say anything about the fail. The Doctors decided not to tell the public the cancer is still there.
If you don't see issue with that, then god help you.

Whew, a tad convoluted, but... nope, don't see it.
Best I can see analogy wise is that a patient goes to a doctor to have a test to prove he doesn't have cancer and the doctor is unable to do the test so says nothing. Perhaps it is your PRESUMPTION of a cancer that is the TRUE illness here?

Eventually you will talk yourself out of existing.
God help you.

[KitemanSA]

You fail to realize that the real absurdity of Rossi is in the crushing weight of the sum of the ridiculous, not in each particular epoch fail.

Got it. You believe in "guilty cuz not proven innocent". You wouldn't happen to be French, would you? That is a pretty good description of their Napoleonic Code.

[Betruger]

For argument's sake, let's say you are correct that Rossi is merely clumsy and misunderstood. The bottom line remains that he is unfit for leading the ECat show. Or is the American Way not one of perpetual progress, etc? I fail to see how Rossi's character in thought or action is comparable.

[seedload]

You fail to realize that the real absurdity of Rossi is in the crushing weight of the sum of the ridiculous, not in each particular epoch fail.

Got it. You believe in "guilty cuz not proven innocent".

Terrible argument. This isn't a court of law.

Regardless, that isn't my position at all. I don't think he is lying because he can't prove himself innocent, I think he is lying because he keeps telling lies. You don't need a criminal standard to discuss this. You just need the duck standard. In my mind, it was official a long time ago. He's a duck.

If you really feel that a DNA sample is necessary before you can declare him a duck, then be my guest. Good luck getting the blood sample.

[Joseph Chikva]

Terrible argument. This isn't a court of law.

Kiteman is forgetting that science rules a little differ from crime legislation. Scientific community isn't interested in evaluation of someone’s degree of fault. But that is interested in validity of his statements.
And in science and engineering you always should provide reliable and repeatable evidence of your claims. Rossi could not. So, all his claims are intentional fraud or unintentional delusion.
Less interesting which one of those two. Significant only that he has nothing to offer. So, little poor Mr. Rossi is less interesting.

[KitemanSA]

>>=seedload
::=me

>>Terrible argument. This isn't a court of law.
::Thank god, but is it too much to ask for a little truth or justice?

>>Regardless, that isn't my position at all. I don't think he is lying because he can't prove himself innocent, I think he is lying because he keeps telling lies.
:: Please demonstrate one lie regarding ECat. Just one.

>>You don't need a criminal standard to discuss this. You just need the duck standard. In my mind, it was official a long time ago. He's a duck.
:: And if you had the maturity and honesty to recognize that your mind does not equal the world, so your statements are opinions, and stop stating them as facts, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

>>If you really feel that a DNA sample is necessary before you can declare him a duck, then be my guest. Good luck getting the blood sample.
:: You are the one claiming he is a duck. You provide the evidence, REAL evidence, not just something that is "in your mind". THAT is the "American Way".

[KitemanSA]

to be fair to kiteman, I think he is trying hard to be agnostic and sit on the fence a bit until such time there is proof either way, but this is a bit of a cowardly position imo, ok to do at the start, but 4 years , an ever changing story later, previous fraud conviction, non working capacitors, mystery colonels, and finally the great ecat firesale (swedes only) ... just pick a side already??

I have. Truth, Justice and the American Way.

I have repeatedly given my opinions about the situation. Nobody cares. But many seem to be of the mistaken belief that their opinion equals truth. They make statements about things in a factual manner, I ask for the facts, they wave their hands. In other words, they are as competent at demonstrating their side as Rossi is at demonstrating his. And based on these dueling incompetencies, I should "choose between them"? No thanks! I'll continue to adjust my "opinions" based on the ebb and flow until real evidence is to be had either way. I have no NEED to be on a "side".

[Betruger]

Kite show us who else in history delivered something like the ECat after the kind and quantity of bullshit Rossi has lathered up so far.

[ladajo]

to be fair to kiteman, I think he is trying hard to be agnostic and sit on the fence a bit until such time there is proof either way, but this is a bit of a cowardly position imo, ok to do at the start, but 4 years , an ever changing story later, previous fraud conviction, non working capacitors, mystery colonels, and finally the great ecat firesale (swedes only) ... just pick a side already??

I have. Truth, Justice and the American Way.

I have repeatedly given my opinions about the situation. Nobody cares. But many seem to be of the mistaken belief that their opinion equals truth. They make statements about things in a factual manner, I ask for the facts, they wave their hands. In other words, they are as competent at demonstrating their side as Rossi is at demonstrating his. And based on these dueling incompetencies, I should "choose between them"? No thanks! I'll continue to adjust my "opinions" based on the ebb and flow until real evidence is to be had either way. I have no NEED to be on a "side".

So is what you are really saying is that you can not make a decision about anything?
Have you asked yourself if you exist lately?

[seedload]

>>Regardless, that isn't my position at all. I don't think he is lying because he can't prove himself innocent, I think he is lying because he keeps telling lies.
:: Please demonstrate one lie regarding ECat. Just one.

See, this is your game. You want to limit me to "Just one". By doing so, you can play your game of inventing a POTENTIAL alternate scenario whereby this or that individual example is not a lie. Any child can play your game when explaining a single missing cookie in the cookie jar.

But you are totally ignoring my argument. It is not the individual lies that make Rossi a liar. It is the sum of all of the apparent lies that make him a liar. It is the missing cookie every two hours and the empty jar at the end that the child tries to explain away with 10 uniquely different unlikely stories.

The child, knowing that each individual story is plausible, doesn't understand why he isn't believed. The child continues to defend each individual story on its own merits of potential plausibility. The child has an underdeveloped brain that doesn't think abstractly enough to be able to come to grips with the idea that 10 likely lies might as well be one definite one.

So, if you want examples, just read back in the thread, find the too numerous to count examples that have already been provided to you, note your excuses for why each MIGHT NOT BE a lie, and then.... do the numbers... think cookie jar... and stop acting like a child.

[KitemanSA]

Kite show us who else in history delivered something like the ECat after the kind and quantity of bullshit Rossi has lathered up so far.

Since Focardi pretty much made him the band leader, I can't show you anyone with his level of publicity. And whether it proves to be bs remains to be seen.