Talk-Polywell.org

Believing it is real is not the point, for me at least. I won’t know if it really exists until a sample EESU is out there for others to test. But I see no point in being adamant that it can’t work, as the lack of solid data means we can’t be sure either way. It is fun to speculate, hence these threads…

At least we won’t have to wait as long as for the equally secretive Polywell to find out the answer.

Mvanwink5, I fear you have mistaken me for an EEStor believer. In fact I'm an agnostic observer at this point. While not remotely qualified to pass technical jusdgement, there are lots of very smart folks on both sides of the EEStory.

Its actually the social science that is more compelling than the physical science here. I do not think there is enough known by any outsider about the real science behind EEStor to know for sure if there is anything there. However, some of the players (including some of the Lockheed Martin people with whom I used to work) are enough to keep me from passing final judgement just yet.

At this point, it appears that we will only have to wait 1 to 5 months to see if EEStor delivers pre=production units to Zenn as promised and if they meet their claims. Based on the disruptive potential of the technology, I can certainly wait that long for an answer.

Kahuna, I have great sympathy for hope, optimism, and prayer. However, sorry to say, I have turned elsewhere wrt EEStor due to bogus patent data, no theory that comes within 2 orders of magnitude of explaining the posited energy denisity, and years of deadlines pushed off at the last minute to the next year.

On the other hand, the polywell train is on the move, that is real, and that cheers me up.javascript:emoticon(':D')

Cheers

mvanwink5,

Agree completely on the Polywell express. Very exciting. Unfortunately, it's almost as difficult to get hard news on Polywell as EEStor.

You are probably right on EEStor, but its an interesting story to watch unfold. It costs me little to keep an eye on both stories, so I will continue to do so at least for the rest of the year on EEStor. If they have not delivered by then, I suspect they never will.

Kahuna wrote:mvanwink5,
Agree completely on the Polywell express. Very exciting. Unfortunately, it's almost as difficult to get hard news on Polywell as EEStor.

You are probably right on EEStor, but its an interesting story to watch unfold. It costs me little to keep an eye on both stories, so I will continue to do so at least for the rest of the year on EEStor. If they have not delivered by then, I suspect they never will.

I think perhaps the main difference between Polywell and EEStor is that there is enough data out there about the details of Polywell for you to build one and test it yourself, if you want. Can the same be said about EEStor?

parallel wrote:At least we won’t have to wait as long as for the equally secretive Polywell to find out the answer.

Au contraire... we will never really "find out" about EEStore. By late this year they will have announced another delay. Then will come another. It will perpetually delayed until there are few enough believers that they can no longer get funding at which point plans will be put on hold. But Weir isn't going to announce at that point: "The skeptics were right-- it was all lies".

Long after we know whether Polywell will work or not, people will continue to believe in EEStor and will no doubt be creating message board signatures such as "Why hasn't the Obama administration fully funded EEStor?".

To add fuel to the debate, here is an article concerning some (non-EEStor) supercapacitor progress.

http://www.gizmag.com/nanoscale-supercapacitor/11297/

"New Nanoscale supercapacitor can store 100 times more energy"

Carl White wrote:To add fuel to the debate, here is an article concerning some (non-EEStor) supercapacitor progress.

http://www.gizmag.com/nanoscale-supercapacitor/11297/

"New Nanoscale supercapacitor can store 100 times more energy"

The fabrication method is going to cost. The first place such a technology would be employed is in electronics. They could do well without having to get the defect level impossibly (for now) low.

Some interesting developments on this front. It looks like Zenn is going for an R&D center in MI supported by DOE funds and that they have some political support. The support appears to be contingent on EEStor being "real" and "near-term" which is interesting.

Also, some visibility into the EEStor facility with positive comments by Congressman John Carter.

"It is exciting that we have a Central Texas company this close to
revolutionizing transportation as we know it in America. The electric
storage technology that I saw at EEStor can dramatically change the
entire automotive industry and our overall economy when placed in mass
product. I'm looking forward to great things in the very near future
from this company." - U.S. Rep. John Carter (R-TX31)

Here are the related stories:

http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2009 ... es-us.html
http://tinyurl.com/ldfxzo
http://tinyurl.com/knm3nx

It seems that EEStor has requested UL certification. Still no proof of anything, but another indication that the EESU is real. I am now sufficiently persuaded to have gambled a few bucks on ZENN shares.

"We have received a request to certify EEStor's product," said Priya L. Tabaddor, PhD, Global Energy Services, Underwriters Laboratories, Inc.”

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/103 ... rs-product

There is no highway-capable electric vehicle.

Zenn now makes low-speed electric vehicles, but in an apparent shift in strategy, Zenn Chief Executive Ian Clifford said on Tuesday the company no longer plans to distribute or sell its own highway-capable electric vehicle, partly due to an increasingly competitive market.

"The way things have really changed over the last year -- there have been such dramatic shifts and focus on electric vehicles -- it doesn't make a lot of business sense for us to go into the distribution and sale of the vehicle," he said.

There is no car because there is no EEStor EESU. Stick a fork in 'em.

Interview with Zenn based on the announcement:

http://gm-volt.com/2009/09/23/zenn-moto ... on-target/

*

I thought it unlikely that Zenn could make an electric car profitably without a much larger partner.

The stock market doesn't think much of Zenn's current move. I am hoping that the timing was influenced by Zenn having some inside information about the timing of an announcement by EEStor or delivery of an EESU. Zenn can't survive for long doing nothing. Isn't it a sin to be pessimistic?

parallel wrote:I thought it unlikely that Zenn could make an electric car profitably without a much larger partner.

The stock market doesn't think much of Zenn's current move. I am hoping that the timing was influenced by Zenn having some inside information about the timing of an announcement by EEStor or delivery of an EESU. Zenn can't survive for long doing nothing. Isn't it a sin to be pessimistic?

Maybe. But it is also a sin to be conned.

So who exactly do you think is doing the conning here?