10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:07 pm

KitemanSA wrote: Millikan = scientist
Rossi = business man.

I do not like labels.
Is businessman the man who tries to sell rotten tomatoes?

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:15 pm

olivier,
Brian Josephson got his Nobel Prize for physics, but well spotted. I'm sure his parapsychological abilities will come in handy for guiding the heat ray from the flying saucer hovering overhead, providing an undetectable source for fraudulent heat.

We know it must be fraudulent because pseudoscience experts like Chikva and ScottL have said so, so many times. Repeating something so often means it must be true.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:26 pm

parallel wrote:We know it must be fraudulent because pseudoscience experts like Chikva and ScottL have said so, so many times. Repeating something so often means it must be true.

Mr. parallel, I do not consider myself as a big expert in physics. In engineering without any false modesty - may be.
But actually the measurement of 5kW of heat power is trivial task even for pupils of middle school.
And why "pseudo"? Because we have put very logical question: "Where is proper calorimetry or on base on what are you asserting that cold fusion is feasible and proved phenomenon?"

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 pm

Chikva,
I really don't care how you or a 12th grader would have run the experiments. Unless you say Dr. Levi is an idiot or a liar, the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows the E-Cat produces large amounts of anomalous heat.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:04 pm

parallel wrote:the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows the E-Cat produces large amounts of anomalous heat.

Where and when?
Whether the test was similar to that video with swinging a hose person?

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:22 pm

More from Rossi's blog

Andrea Rossi
September 26th, 2011 at 10:11 AM

Dear Italo:
I confirm
The energy measurements will be made only on the water heated by the reactor’s primary circuit in the heat exchanger that will heat the water using the steam made by the reactor. The steam will be in a closed loop, and will be condensed by the heat exchanger; one thermometer will be put along the water circuit at the input of the heat exchanger and one thermometer will be put at the exit of the heat exchanger, so that the delta T to calculate the energy will be taken only from the liquid water flow of the secondary circuit. This of course will penalize us, because some energy will be lost in the heat exchange, but the energy we produce is so high that we can accept it. The E-Cat will work also in self sustained mode. We have invited selected scientists from Sweden, USA, France, G.B., Germany, Italy, Greece, Japan, Cina, Russia.
Every component of the circuit will be inspected and weighted before the test, and also external measures will be taken of the reactors.
The test will last at least 12 hours. At the end all the components will be again disassembled, weighted, etc.
Measurements will be taken from a specialist expert to accertain that no radiations modify substantially the background radiations of the room.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Andrea Rossi
September 26th, 2011 at 9:57 AM

Dear Enrico Billi:
Our theoretical explication of how the E-Cat works is ready, the problem now is that it is bound to confidential information. As soon as we will have enough patent coverage we will publish it. What happens in my E-Cats now is clear. This knowledge, by the way, has led to improvements to the reactors, as you will see from the tests which will be performed in October.
As you said, a lot of work has been necessary.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
(lavolale, lavolale!)

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:45 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:
parallel wrote:the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows the E-Cat produces large amounts of anomalous heat.
Where and when?
Whether the test was similar to that video with swinging a hose person?

Joe,
Look it up. You should be just as able to find it as P. There have been MULTIPLE references and links to it thruout these fora. Look for yourself and maybe it will stick.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:19 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:
parallel wrote:the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows the E-Cat produces large amounts of anomalous heat.
Where and when?
Whether the test was similar to that video with swinging a hose person?
Joe,
Look it up. You should be just as able to find it as P. There have been MULTIPLE references and links to it thruout these fora. Look for yourself and maybe it will stick.

Mr. parrallel wrote

the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows

then he wrote:

test will be made

So, he did not yet.

We have invited selected scientists from Sweden, USA, France, G.B., Germany, Italy, Greece, Japan, Cina, Russia

I see he will again lease coffee machine. 10 countries and at least 10 visitors. Is that real? I know Hefei Institute in China pays 2000 USD for one lecture. Or 10 scientists will stay at reactor 12 hours for free? Plus traveling. Does Rossi pay this money? And for what that test is required if he has customer in USA guaranteed paying as soon as reactor will correspond to requirements.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:33 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:
the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows

test will be made

"ran" means in the past. Levi ran an 18 hr test in the past.
"will be made" is in the future. He can't give you that , it hasn't happened yet.
Find the Levi test on your own; wait for the future test.

stefanbanev · Post by **stefanbanev** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:40 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:
the 18 hour test he ran without steam shows

test will be made

"ran" means in the past. Levi ran an 18 hr test in the past.
"will be made" is in the future. He can't give you that , it hasn't happened yet.
Find the Levi test on your own; wait for the future test.

Joseph has spent so many hours for this topic and yet he is not aware about "non-steam" demonstration; well, apparently it is totally pointless to argue with such "audience". It's pretty much the same as with "EEstor accusation"... at least these two opponents are effectively off the list (unless someone did not read through the thread). Anyway, in several months this saga is going to be settled in one way or another. The outcome, to be practically relevant in short term, LENR effect should demonstrate the net energy at least twice above breakeven.

Luzr · Post by **Luzr** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:07 pm

parallel wrote:Luzr,
If Rossi refuses to allow any basic measurements of 5kW machine for 'security concerns', do you think going 1MW will make it any easier?
Why don't you read my post and that of Cart White above, both of which say individual units will be tested?

That is definitely good and fine and I am looking forward to it.

Actually, do not get me wrong. I really wish that Ni H LENR was possible. Fingers crossed for that individual unit tests...

BUT that still does not explain 1MW demo. What is that supposed to be good for, again? Proper test of single individual unit is all that is needed.... There is nothing Rossi can achieve by building 1MW nonsense, unless he plans scam...

stefanbanev · Post by **stefanbanev** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:26 pm

Luzr wrote:
parallel wrote:Luzr,
If Rossi refuses to allow any basic measurements of 5kW machine for 'security concerns', do you think going 1MW will make it any easier?
Why don't you read my post and that of Cart White above, both of which say individual units will be tested?
That is definitely good and fine and I am looking forward to it.

Actually, do not get me wrong. I really wish that Ni H LENR was possible. Fingers crossed for that individual unit tests...

BUT that still does not explain 1MW demo. What is that supposed to be good for, again? Proper test of single individual unit is all that is needed.... There is nothing Rossi can achieve by building 1MW nonsense, unless he plans scam...

1MW "nonsense" carries on the marketing message even from engineering point of view, the testing one unit is totally sufficient. The "hype" is inevitable part of any marketing efforts, the collective-conciseness is the composition of opinions of smart individuals (minority) & less sophisticated masses, to have both on your side apparently helps to develop the business.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:48 pm

Do you trouble reading or is it comprehension?
As I wrote on the previous page.

Luzr,
A little homework and all would be clear.

1. There will be a detailed test of just one unit. Not just at the upcoming 1 MW demo, but also at Upssala U. using a closed loop for the working fluid.
2. 1 MW is a commercial size. It has been sold pending verification of the output. The energy it generates will be used for something by the customer.
4. 1 megawatt is a little hard to brush off as experimental error.
4. If Rossi blew his nose you would probably conclude he was having a nervous breakdown.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:12 am

The last videos with experiment concern me in that we see a definite temperature drop from the point of unplugging to the end of the self-sustained mode. This leads me to believe that if given enough time, the device will simply cool to room temperature, steam will condense back to water. We're also told that it needs to be plugged in to remain stable which causes the temperature to increase again. I find this confusing as I would assume a reaction becoming unstable in such a device would mean the temperature is likely rising, not falling like we observed.

As I don't know what's going on in the chamber and why you'd get an explosive reaction at room temperature, I'd defer to whatever explanation Parallel might have for it all. These politely put, are my concerns currently.

Parallel, what are your areas of experise (I.E. engineer, chemist, physicist)? I've completed an engineering degree myself and am considering grad school in the future. I specify to clear up any psuedoscience claims.

Carl White · Post by **Carl White** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:55 am

It was a false alarm, apparently:

By his latest comments on that blog post, I see that Passerini acknowledges that there has been a mixup on this part. It was "just" an invitation that Josephson had the right to accept or decline. Hopefully other acclaimed scientists, skeptics included, have been invited as well.

Disappointing.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@es ... 51841.html