LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by D Tibbets »

paperburn1 wrote:F9 I am making a correction before I supposed that the rossi reaction was more energy than the energy in the total annihilation of the matter involved.
I was off by a factor (pesky zeros) so there is enough potential energy to provide for the reaction. :oops:
Making some very generous assumptions for Rossi's secret machine.
Over a gram of lithium or the equvalent of 0.2 moles of lithium.
Assumption of a rediculous 100 MeV per reaction
Operation over 1 year at one million Wat seconds (one million Joules ) continous output
Using this conversion calculater

https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-ene ... =100000000

100000000 eV = 1.602176487 * 10-11 Ws (Joules)
Or more usefully, 1 eV= 1.602176487 E-19 Ws I commonly use 10^19 to express the exponet and it is the same.
Continous production would result in 1 million Watt c0ntinous for one Hour ( a more common unit of measure than MW Days). In any case this would be 60 MWs or 60 million Joules over one minute and 3600 MWs over an hour and 86400 MWs or Joules over one day and 31536000 MWs or MJoules over a 365 day year.
One mole of lithium is 6-7 grams and 6.03 *10^23 atoms. 0.1 mole would be 6.03 *10^22 atoms. With the given 100 MeV per atom reacting that would be 603 *10^24 MeV that could be produced if all of the generous estimate of lithium with the generous energy output estimate was consumed.
Plugging this number into the above conversion would yield-
(6.03 *10^24 MeV) / (1 MeV/ 1.602176487 E-19 Ws)
This gives an answer of 9.66 *10^7 Ws (or again Joules)
This means that ~ 2 grams fused with hydrogen or other magic ingredients could provide one magawatt of output for about 100 seconds. Even if you give an order of magnitude additional yield the two grams of lithium would last for at most ~ 20 minutes.

To last a year at continous one MWs output would require about 26000 times more or about 52000 grams or 52 Kg of lithium. For a quick check, assume that fusion reactions yield about 10,000,000 times as much energy as burning coal. A coal fired plant would consume about 520 million Kg or about 52000 KT of coal or about 1000 train cars. This is a lot of coal, though remember I am giving the Rossi machine a 10 to 100 fold gift in reasonable fusion output of lithium with hydrogen. Other claimed ingredients muddies the water somewhat, but they would all contribute less and less energy to the total.

Assuming my math is remotely accurate, then your original dismay is reasonable.

Rossi of course can claim that he meant 1 million watts over a longer time frame, such as a total output of 1 MWs delivered over over 1 week. This would translate to 1,000,000 Watt sec / ~504 seconds. That would at least be believable (assuming the system works at all). But the real world energy output would now be about 2,000 Joules/s or 2000 Watts continuous. This output is rather modest for running a factory.

PS: Extrapolating my calculations to your matter- antimatter comparison and assuming there is about 1000 times more energy released than with light element fusion reactions then several grams would come close. But, recall that I made the ridiculous assumption that each lithium consumed in the fusion reaction produced about a GeV of energy. Using much more reasonable fusion yield numbers the output falls about 100 fold less, so the annihilation reaction would only yield about 1% of the claimed output with only about 1 to 2 grams of lithium to work with...

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

paperburn1
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

Thanks Dan
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

I think that the soon to come trip and visit to the "secret address" may provide some amusing happy snaps and an anecdote to go with.
It also does not surprise me that Rossiclown is spinning his story as he moves to the next phase of of his personal wealth accumulation scam. Another "secret customer" to add to the pile of how many now? And how many of them did "testing"? Seems like a pattern here. One that is at complete logical odds with the creation of a "world changing invention".
<cue Rossibots to humorously attempt to twist and backflip logic on why it is perfectly sensible for multiple "customers" to remain in secret for five years with a world changing invention>
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by birchoff »

ladajo wrote:I think that the soon to come trip and visit to the "secret address" may provide some amusing happy snaps and an anecdote to go with.
It also does not surprise me that Rossiclown is spinning his story as he moves to the next phase of of his personal wealth accumulation scam. Another "secret customer" to add to the pile of how many now? And how many of them did "testing"? Seems like a pattern here. One that is at complete logical odds with the creation of a "world changing invention".
<cue Rossibots to humorously attempt to twist and backflip logic on why it is perfectly sensible for multiple "customers" to remain in secret for five years with a world changing invention>

As much as I wanted to avoid commenting again. I couldnt help but ask. Has any money changed hands for the 1MW plant. Between the stuff said here and an e-cat world. it looks like the customer's payment was allowing them to test their device at their premises. Or are you referring to new customers accepting what has been claimed since industrial heat got invovlved?

Giorgio
Posts: 3068
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

birchoff wrote:As much as I wanted to avoid commenting again. I couldnt help but ask. Has any money changed hands for the 1MW plant. Between the stuff said here and an e-cat world. it looks like the customer's payment was allowing them to test their device at their premises.
Regardless the customer paying or not (or even existing), it does not effect Rossi deal with Industrial Heat. He already got the money from them and is using them to buy properties in Florida. This is something that I believe no one can dispute.

The whole test can be a failure and this would not matter to Rossi as he already got his fee and (as ladajo said) he can now move on to the next step in this scam, the ecatX.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

birchoff wrote:
ladajo wrote:I think that the soon to come trip and visit to the "secret address" may provide some amusing happy snaps and an anecdote to go with.
It also does not surprise me that Rossiclown is spinning his story as he moves to the next phase of of his personal wealth accumulation scam. Another "secret customer" to add to the pile of how many now? And how many of them did "testing"? Seems like a pattern here. One that is at complete logical odds with the creation of a "world changing invention".
<cue Rossibots to humorously attempt to twist and backflip logic on why it is perfectly sensible for multiple "customers" to remain in secret for five years with a world changing invention>

As much as I wanted to avoid commenting again. I couldnt help but ask. Has any money changed hands for the 1MW plant. Between the stuff said here and an e-cat world. it looks like the customer's payment was allowing them to test their device at their premises. Or are you referring to new customers accepting what has been claimed since industrial heat got invovlved?
None of this is clear as it is all based in Rossisaids. Given that Rossiclown keeps changing his stories, it is very hard to tell where reality is with him. I would bet that other than Industrial Heat, Rossiclown has not gotten any real money from any real customer. Any funds he got were from speculative investors who were banking on his "Pre-orders" (a classic scammer move). As we know, some of that money was then recovered by investors as they determined Rossiclown was not going to deliver.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

He is also selling sweat shirts and hoodies!
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Seriously!?! OMFG! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

How many more indicators of silliness will it take for folks to realize how full of shit he is???

I am very glad that il grandioso Rossiclown has the ability to take time from his incredibly busy schedule to not only operate the Rossiworld Blog, but also now arrange and manage the sales of Hoodies and Sweatshirts!

THIS IS AWESOME!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thank you so much for making my day Paperburn.
I swear, then endless free comedy that Rossiclown provides is adding years to my life! What a de-stresser!

My day would truly be made complete if Parallel posts on this!
<silly grin of anticipation begins to ache cheek muscles>
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

JoeP
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by JoeP »

To be fair, I think that merchandise is for and about is ECat World and sold on that site. I don't know if Rossi owns that or gets a cut of the profits from selling any of that stuff. He certainly benefits greatly from that site though, it is sort of a propaganda arm, so it would not surprise me he has some control or serious influence. My bet is on Rossi to beat Mills the BLP at their own game.

nferguso
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:43 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by nferguso »

I am calling for pure Rossi predictions. As the "350 day test" chapter of the Rossi saga concludes, what would you predict as the Rossiest possible conclusion? Not what you think is most likely, but what outcome would be the ultimate in its Rossiness? Here is mine. This is all going to be mostly according to Rossi.

1. There will have been an actual power plant container heating water.
2. Rossi will have *ahem* slightly exaggerated the amount of time and energy he spent monitoring the operation of the plant.
3. The customer will be non-existent or, if identified to outsiders, dodgy at best.
4. Certain outsiders (perhaps Lewan's "sources") will have seen the
plant in operation and inspected it only superficially.
5. Rossi will claim that a complete report has been delivered to the customer, who commissioned it.
6. The customer will remain anonymous for "competitive" reasons.
7. The customer will withhold the full report, for "competitive" reasons.
8. Rossi will release to the public an "executive summary" of the test.
9. In the summary, the performance numbers will be impressive, but ambiguous or annoyingly incomplete. Major questions will be left unanswered.
10. The test setup and validation protocol will be poorly or ambiguously described, if it's described at all.
11. The external evaluator will remain anonymous, for "proprietary" reasons, or will eventually turn out to have a constructed identity.
12. Rossi will have *ahem* slightly exaggerated the amount of time and energy he spent monitoring the operation of the plant.
13. Matt Lewan's "sources" will be legitimate, but will at best have interacted with bogus standins for the customer and evaluator.
14. Industrial Heat will delay production to work out reliability and production issues and to clear regulatory hurdles.
15. Rossi will drop all activity on the warm cat to concentrate on the hot cat.

To be honest, I can't figure out how the Rossi saga can continue beyond this point in the true Rossi manner. Is there any kind of plausible chapter that can follow this? Unless his reactor works as claimed, of course.

JoeP
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by JoeP »

nferguso wrote:To be honest, I can't figure out how the Rossi saga can continue beyond this point in the true Rossi manner. Is there any kind of plausible chapter that can follow this? Unless his reactor works as claimed, of course.
Well, my bet is on the report being issued and it showing significant, usable source of heat energy well over the input energy. That is always the next chapter, and will be the one after that too. Exactly like his prior reports. And I bet the validator is someone or some org Rossi has a prior and favorable relationship with. Either something from Industrial Heat itself, or perhaps some technician from Elforsk. If it is one thing that I think this guy can do is fool people and fake results with trickery such as hidden power sources or faking out the measurement equipment. And since he lives in the shipping container, he has 24x7 access to babysit and refine his scheme and obtain the desired result.

I leave a %0.001 chance of a real effect though; I'd be happy if that were the truth, honestly. But almost certain that guy is scam and has further damaged anyone seriously doing research into CF/LENR. That much was so clear after the last so-called independent test. So if there is really any science there, it will be even further made disreputable, and even less likely to obtain serious research and talent.

Giorgio
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

JoeP wrote:So if there is really any science there, it will be even further made disreputable, and even less likely to obtain serious research and talent.
Unfortunately that's the point that all Rossi's minions can't understand.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

paperburn1
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Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

From what I understand he has an agreement with Rossi and Rossi gets a cut. what the percentages are I have no idea.
In reality this is very common in the internet world, Third party , direct ship vendors.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Giorgio
Posts: 3068
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

paperburn1 wrote:From what I understand he has an agreement with Rossi and Rossi gets a cut. what the percentages are I have no idea.
In reality this is very common in the internet world, Third party , direct ship vendors.
In reality we should also point out that whoever spend time to profit even from small amounts like that is a person that generally does not have a better way to invest his time into other activities like, as example research. This is just another one of those hints that should make people realize that this story is just a well planned scam.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Crawdaddy
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Crawdaddy »

Keep your eye on this people! Announcement tomorrow.

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en ... the-signal

In my experience these people are actually scientists, despite the ramshackle experiments they have done so far. More a product of funding that level of knowledge I think.

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