10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[Ivy Matt]

Hopefully it will be enough for Rossi to become more forthcoming with the details. That would make the patent very worthwhile.

I doubt it. Since the catalysts weren't disclosed in this patent, I believe that means they are still unprotected, at least by this patent. They're still trade secrets. I do wonder exactly what this patent covers, and what it means for Piantelli's patent applications.

Note: Jed Rothwell quotes Mats Lewan of Ny Teknik as saying, "This means the EU patent is granted.":

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@es ... 46389.html

I guess this means Defkalion Green Technologies is in business, at least from now through October.

[kunkmiester]

How long will a set of powder last? If everyone started getting one of these in their basements, I could see issues with how long the nickel supplies would hold out.

[Skipjack]

From what I understand they claim to use only small amounts of the nickel. According to them a single filling lasts for 6 months.
Nickel is pretty common, AFAIK. At the rate it is used by these cathalysts (allegedly), it should not really be in danger of getting rare. If it did, much of earths core is also nickel.

[parallel]

kunkmiester,

How long will a set of powder last?

Your question was answered several times before you asked it. Should you be faintly interested in Rossi's device you might also read his patent that I linked at the bottom of the previous page.

Makes me wonder why people post when they are not interested enough to follow the discussion. It certainly does little for the signal to noise ratio.

[Giorgio]

Staggeringly... it is true! The UIBM has granted it!

This opens up some interesting scenarios.
As he had is patent granted, he could as well disclose everything and let independent researchers to actually verify his claims.

I am curious to see what is next move will be.

[Helius]

Staggeringly... it is true! The UIBM has granted it!

This opens up some interesting scenarios.
As he had is patent granted, he could as well disclose everything and let independent researchers to actually verify his claims.

I am curious to see what is next move will be.

My prediction is stalling and obfuscation, even though his patents are now protected. He will probably file more patents as an excuse to avoid independent testing. I came to this conclusion without visiting a Psychic, Palm reader, Phrenologist, Scientologist, Shaman, spirit conjurer, zero point scientist, or spoon bender.

[parallel]

Giorgio & Helius,

It seems you have not read my comments on the previous page.

As soon as he applies for a patent on the catalyst it will become public knowledge. What happens if the patent is not granted? Read what I wrote.

[chrismb]

Just to avoid getting ahead of ourselves here, the UIBM has granted the patent, but I do not know what arrangements the different territorial IP have agreed. Some countries recognise grant in one country, then rubber-stamp the sister application in their own. I don't think that applies to many, though.

As for it being 'recognised in other EU countries', this is fallacious. It has to be granted by each and every country, and individual dues paid. Whether they do a rubber-stamp job on it, or not, it still need a formal grant from each country.

Difficult to see how this one got through, other than the fact that it was an Italian national applying? The very claims leave me wondering what he's actually patented - he's got an Italian patent for a metal tube with a nickel powder in it (?!?).

[parallel]

chrismb,

patent for a metal tube with a nickel powder in it (?!?).

That's being unfair. he claims a heated Ni powder, under a range of pressure of H2, in a metal tube, that generates heat. Also, particular shielding.
Even so, I would be surprised if that patent were not challenged.

Others have stated there is just one patent granted for EU countries, but I don't know how reliable the sources are. I certainly don't know.

I have little faith in patent protection except as a tool for well heeled companies to fight just about anything while they proceed to infringe on the invention. Did you read the linked piece on the Wright Brothers?

Seems to me Rossi is doing the right thing by keeping as much as possible secret and getting on with commercial development. As I wrote earlier, somebody will figure out how to screw him and academia will claim they knew about it all along and what he has done is nothing new.

[Skipjack]

As for it being 'recognised in other EU countries', this is fallacious. It has to be granted by each and every country, and individual dues paid.

Personally I consider this one of the paradoxa of EU law. The EU regulates all sorts of useless crap across countries but these things still have to be filed in every single country, just like the certification for medical software (there finally is a central angency for pharamceuticsl products, not they dont do software).
One of the many reasons I am not all to fond of the EU.

Difficult to see how this one got through, other than the fact that it was an Italian national applying?

I agree on that one.

He will probably file more patents as an excuse to avoid independent testing.

A patent needs to describe an invention in such a way that anybody proficient in the trade can reproduce it.
So by filing a patent, he will basically enable anybody to independently reproduce and therefore verify his invention.
That does not mean that an insufficient description cant sometimes still get a patent granted, but it is rather rare.

Others have stated there is just one patent granted for EU countries

Unless this is a VERY recent change in EU patent law, you still have to file separately for every EU country, IIRC (I have my invention only protected in Austria, so I can claim prior art in case someone tries to patent it).

[parallel]

Skipjack,

A patent needs to describe an invention in such a way that anybody proficient in the trade can reproduce it.
So by filing a patent, he will basically enable anybody to independently reproduce his invention.

The Chinese are not noted for observing patents for starters.

Re allowing anybody to reproduce his invention, I loved the drawing of the heater element in the patent...

Re your Austrian patent, that means anybody can make it in any other country besides Austria and you have told them how to do it.

[Axil]

In, 1879, Tomas Edison filed for U.S. patent (granted on January 27, 1880) for an electric lamp using "a carbon filament or strip coiled and connected to platina contact wires".

On October 1883, the US patent office ruled that Edison's patent was based on the work of William Sawyer and was therefore invalid. Litigation continued for nearly six years, until October 1889 a decade after the first successful test, when a judge ruled that Edison's electric light improvement claim for "a filament of carbon of high resistance" was valid. As a payoff to Joseph Swan another light bulb patent holder and to avoid a possible extended court battle with him, whose British patent had been awarded a year before Edison's, he and Swan formed a joint company called Ediswan to manufacture and market the invention in Britain.

With trillions of dollars at stake, Rossi may have decades of court battles ahead. The situation between Piantelli and Rossi is almost the same as that between Edison and Swan, The same type of patent fight threat could happen between Piantelli and Rossi since initially Piantelli came up with the design and Rossi just improved it to a practical level.

[parallel]

Armstrong, who invented FM was another.

"Financially broken and mentally beaten after years of legal tussles with RCA and others, Armstrong lashed out at his wife with a fireplace poker, striking her on the arm. Fearing for her life, Marion fled their apartment and went to stay with her sister. Alone and depressed over the FM patent disputes, Armstrong removed the air conditioner from the window, dressed in his coat and hat and jumped to his death from the thirteenth floor of his New York City apartment on January 31, 1954. His body was found the next morning by a maintenance worker. His suicide note to his wife read: "May God help you and have mercy on my soul".[15][16] Upon hearing the news, David Sarnoff remarked "I did not kill Armstrong." Armstrong's widow Marion renewed the patent fight against RCA and finally prevailed. Unlike her husband, Marion was willing to compromise."

[Skipjack]

I know that the Chinese like to check out pantents, but most of the time they dont even have to do that, since we are soooo eager to build the factories right there for them!

Re allowing anybody to reproduce his invention, I loved the drawing of the heater element in the patent...

I have not bothered checking the patent, but I assume that you mean it is not sufficiet to reproduce it. Well that would mean that the patent should not have been granted.
In theory the description has ot be sufficient for anybody proficient in the trade to reproduce it. This is what the patent office tells you.

that means anybody can make it in any other country besides Austria and you have told them how to do it.

Yeah, but patenting it will be difficult or respectively it can be challenged due to "prior art".
We rely on trade secrets for most of what we do. This was the only thing that could have been patentable and we patented it for self protection more than anything.

[Giorgio]

I came to this conclusion without visiting a Psychic, Palm reader, Phrenologist, Scientologist, Shaman, spirit conjurer, zero point scientist, or spoon bender.

This decision, according many, makes your opinions baseless