Talk-Polywell.org

The idea that polywell (EMC2) is 'under the radar' came up several times on this site. But maybe that is not true after all:

Some facts:
- It was mentioned some time ago that Chu is aware of polywell and was 'looking into it'
- Well known physicists have reviewed polywell (twice). I think that must have given some awareness.
- Navy railgun and laser were killed, but later ressurected again. That would make sense if they think there is a usable powersource available soon.
- Tokamak fusion research is killed in the USA, but Chu sais that the USA is commited to fusion.

What does not fit is the ongoing financing of the NEXT Tokamak in France.

But then I thought: maybe they keep it going to confuse us while the whole world is burning research capacity on a desastrous project the USA can finish polywell and stay a few years ahead.

We have this thing called "NIF".

Chu is "aware" of many things. He gets a paycheck to say so.

Polywell has had more than two panel reviews.

Railgun and Laser work are congressional pet projects. Ironically, the only thing afloat (almost) today that could mount them (as is) is Zumwalt. If they can scale down "battle" level laser, then MAYBE it could get on a CVN or electrically mod'ed Gas Turbine platform. Burke V3 may support Laser, but not likely Railgun without a complete change to the power system such as going 4KVDC like Zumwalt.

Cool toys, but nothing to float them on yet. That was a big reason to shelve them for now.

If it looks like Polywell is going to fly, then you can be sure that other countries will start crash programs to catch up. As is often stated, it will certainly change the game. The $64 question is how much & how fast?

luke,

The general feeling around here is that the rest of the world is probably 4 years away from a working Polywell (no power production) once (if) it is announced.

You might cut that to three years by pouring on the cash. Much less time than that increases the risk of failure and a need to greatly extend the program. Embarrassing.

The is is actually putting quite a lot of money into Toks via their participation in ITER, more than any other fusion research project. This is why I am not so sure that Polywell has been an overwhelming success yet.
NIF is mainly a defense project, not a fusion project (that is just used to sell it to the gullible public).

ladajo wrote:We have this thing called "NIF".

I do not hear much about NIF in relation to power generation. Thought it was all about weapon research (or: model validation) ?

Skipjack wrote:The USA is actually putting quite a lot of money into Toks via their participation in ITER.

True, but not compared to size of the economy and importance of the goal. I think it is mainly a political thing: nobody want to bail out first.

And it does not make sense that local reseach is killed. Who will provide the fusioneers to study the thing once it's finished? people need to be educated now and be able to do research on existing machines to take advantage of NEXT if it ever arrives. It all does not make sense to me.

Who will provide the fusioneers to study the thing once it's finished? people need to be educated now and be able to do research on existing machines to take advantage of NEXT if it ever arrives.

There are other ways. For instance - if Polywell suddenly required manpower there is probably a sufficiently large pool available to get at least two or three good crews together. A week of onsite training. Two weeks with the manuals. Good to go.

luke wrote:

ladajo wrote:We have this thing called "NIF".

I do not hear much about NIF in relation to power generation. Thought it was all about weapon research (or: model validation) ?

Obviously you are ignoring the afore mentioned propaganda. NIF is sold to the public as the USofA leading the world in fusion energy research. In fact, you are 100% correct, it is a project for weapons research and validation. It even says that in the fine print...

Em. . .I'd like to understand better how NIF is a weapons program.

This seems completely unlikely to me.

NIF was conceived decades ago and has had a small band of delusional supporters pushing for funds for all that time. IIUC, NIF can never produce a cost effective power generation system. It's a complete waste of taxpayer funds and basically, a jobs program for academics.

If someone knows better, I'd surely like to hear about it. Seems to me NIF is a boondoggle for people who want jobs that are never expected to produce anything of real value.

GIThruster wrote:Em. . .I'd like to understand better how NIF is a weapons program.

This seems completely unlikely to me.

NIF was conceived decades ago and has had a small band of delusional supporters pushing for funds for all that time. IIUC, NIF can never produce a cost effective power generation system. It's a complete waste of taxpayer funds and basically, a jobs program for academics.

If someone knows better, I'd surely like to hear about it. Seems to me NIF is a boondoggle for people who want jobs that are never expected to produce anything of real value.

You shoulda read the fine print. It may still be possible.

GIThruster wrote:Em. . .I'd like to understand better how NIF is a weapons program.

This seems completely unlikely to me.

NIF was conceived decades ago and has had a small band of delusional supporters pushing for funds for all that time. IIUC, NIF can never produce a cost effective power generation system. It's a complete waste of taxpayer funds and basically, a jobs program for academics.

If someone knows better, I'd surely like to hear about it. Seems to me NIF is a boondoggle for people who want jobs that are never expected to produce anything of real value.

Right - using decades ago laser technology it was not possible.

Gusss what - lasers have got better and cheaper. A lot better, and a lot cheaper. And together with a few other new ideas its now looking maybe possible.

It is mainly for nuclear weapons research.
Wikipedia:

and to support nuclear weapon maintenance and design by studying the behavior of matter under the conditions found within nuclear weapons.[2]

Do you really think any republican would sign off on that much funding for it, if it was not for "defense"?

Gusss what - lasers have got better and cheaper. A lot better, and a lot cheaper. And together with a few other new ideas its now looking maybe possible.

My main problem is not with the lasers, but with the gold covered fuel pellets and I am still wondering where and how they are going to breed the tritium and the whole energy conversion thing might be a tad complicated too with the shape and all that.

luke wrote:

Skipjack wrote:The USA is actually putting quite a lot of money into Toks via their participation in ITER.

True, but not compared to size of the economy and importance of the goal.

. As far as I can tell, ITER is of no importance what-so-ever. We should stop wasting our money there and do so research on reactors that may actually have a chance at being economical.

yup.