1977 Review by Haines

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Art Carlson
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1977 Review by Haines

Post by Art Carlson »

In another thread somebody mentioned this as a good source on cusp confinement physics:
  • M.G.Haines, "Plasma Containment in Cusp-Shaped Magnetic Fields" (Review Paper), Nuclear Fusion 17 4(1977), pp.811-858
I had a look at it and thought there might be some interest in my observations. In the following all quotes come from the article.
Up to a couple years ago experiments were indicating a hole size comparable with an ion Larmor radius, a_i, in contrast with ideal sheath theory which predicts a sheath thickness of an electron Larmor radius, a_e. ... However, recently some differently initiated experiments have established a hole size much smaller than the ion Larmor radius and approximately (a_e*a_i)^1/2 in size. No theoretical model has been advanced in the literature, but in this review paper a fairly satisfactory model gives this result. (p.811)
The theme of the sheath thickness appears throughout the paper. It is surprisingly complex. For our purposes (assuming the more recent literature does not significantly change the picture), I would say the standard answer, if you do everything right, is the hybrid Larmor radius. Bussard's assumption that the appropriate scale length is the electron gyroradius seems unsupported, but might be taken as a firm lower limit, that would require a small miracle to achieve. (More on problems with Bussard's model to follow.) In the words of Haines,
[2 a_e] is the thinnest sheath that can be expected in a cusp experiment. (p.814)
However, because the radius r_0(z) of the beta = 1 plasma in a spindle cusp varies from zero at the point cusp radius to R at the ring cusp, and because the magnetic flux in the sheath is a constant, it follows that the sheath thickness delta(z) is approximately given by area conservation
  • delta_p^2 = 2 delta(z) r_0(z) approx 2 delta_L R
because for a beta = 1 plasma with a uniform pressure the magnetic field just outside the sheath is constant in magnitude. Here delta_p is the radius of the effective circular hole at the point cusp, and delta_L is the half-width of the effective sheath at the ring (or line) cusp.
... the loss rates from the two point cusps equaled that from the line cusp. (p.829)
This is far and away the most interesting thing I learned, although it is obvious once it has been pointed out. I have always been claiming that we can ignore the point cusps because the hole from the line cusps will be so much bigger. But actually we could ignore the line cusps and we would still have comparable losses from the point cusps.
Thus Bussards's statement in the Valencia paper (p.9), "At this condition, the electrons inside the quasi-sphere “see“ small exit holes on the B cusp axes, whose size is 1.5-2 times their gyro radius at that energy and field strength.", is patently false, even if we assume that a miracle makes the sheath thickness a_e instead of (a_e*a_i)^1/2. Say we have a point cusp with a loss area of 1 mm^2. If we consider a circle around the cusp with 100 mm radius, then the sheath there can only be (1 mm^2)/(2*pi*100 mm) = 1.6 mu. There is no physics in hell that can keep the sheath thickness a thousandth of an electron gyroradius. I see this as confirmation - with a wholly different argument and much more robust - of my insistence on calculating losses based on line cusps.
Moving on to (in the language of polywells) recirculation, Haines states
The use of electrostatic forces through grids or electrodes placed at the ring cusp and point cusp regions has, probably rightly, received little attention. ... At first sight the one-dimensional model in Fig. 34 in which electrostatic barriers of height Phi_i > kT_i/e followed by |-Phi_e| > kT_e/e to reflect ion and electrons, respectively, looks attractive.... Two consequences arise; first, the magnitude of E required to balance a pressure of n ~ 4 X 10^14 cm^-3 and T_e ~ T_i ~ 2 X 10^8 K is 6.8 MV/cm which is prohibitive; and second, ... the plasma must be able to support an electric field component parallel to the magnetic field of this magnitude. Clearly large currents and associated power losses and electrode loading would occur. (p.846)
I suspected something like this but wasn't quite sure. Haines leaves little doubt that at least one of the species (electrons or ions) will be lost at a rate comparable to the unplugged cusp loss rate.
He proceeds to consider scaling to a (D-T) power reactor and concludes,
that a spindle cusp reactor is not practical, but a long [ > 250 m!] cusp or cusp-ended theta pinch is more feasible particularly if a sheath thickness of 2(a_e*a_i)^1/2 is confirmed.
Finally, he makes an intriguing comment on multiple point cusps:
Sadowski and his co-workers have been studying plasma containment in a spherical multipole (SM) magnetic configuration for some years. It is hoped that since line cusps have been eliminated in favour of point cusps only (of large number) that plasma losses will be much reduced whilst still keeping the favourable minimum-B properties of the trap.
These comments sound inconsistent to me, but maybe one of you would like to look more closely the the SM. The latest journal article referenced is Sadowsky, M., Rev.Sci.Instrum. 40 (1969) 1545.

Some where, some time, some thread I estimated reactor size based on cusp losses, but I can't find it now. Can anybody help me? I thought I landed at something bloody big, but not out of this world. (Assuming D-T fuel cycle, of course.) I would like to check if these new insights change anything.

Munchausen
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Post by Munchausen »

Some where, some time, some thread I estimated reactor size based on cusp losses, but I can't find it now. Can anybody help me? I thought I landed at something bloody big, but not out of this world. (Assuming D-T fuel cycle, of course.) I would like to check if these new insights change anything.
Scroll down in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=9472&highlight=400#9472

Solo
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Post by Solo »

Art: I'd like to see a bit more about how Haines derives his conclusions about "recirculation." I'm a bit skeptical that his assumptions apply to our case. Dolan's literature review from '94 came to a different conclusion.

hanelyp
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Post by hanelyp »

Does that study assume a neutral plasma at the cusps? The polywell, at least by Dr. Buzzard's model, would seem to assume that ions are contained to the interior of the device and have little effect on electron losses through cusps.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Nebel has also said in another context that only very high-energy ions would reach the edges.
The use of electrostatic forces through grids or electrodes placed at the ring cusp and point cusp regions has, probably rightly, received little attention
That sounds like WB-5. Bussard found putting electrodes are the cusps unworkable as it resulted in huge ion losses. This led him to conclude only an open recirculating machine could work.

As for sheaths, I thought we already decided electrons don't collapse into a Debye sheath in a Polywell.

Art Carlson
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Post by Art Carlson »

hanelyp wrote:Does that study assume a neutral plasma at the cusps? The polywell, at least by Dr. Buzzard's model, would seem to assume that ions are contained to the interior of the device and have little effect on electron losses through cusps.
"Quasi-neutral", yes. In contrast to Bussard, Haines works charge densities that are consistent with the electric potentials.

Art Carlson
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Post by Art Carlson »

TallDave wrote:Nebel has also said in another context that only very high-energy ions would reach the edges.
The use of electrostatic forces through grids or electrodes placed at the ring cusp and point cusp regions has, probably rightly, received little attention
That sounds like WB-5. Bussard found putting electrodes are the cusps unworkable as it resulted in huge ion losses. This led him to conclude only an open recirculating machine could work.
Bussard liked to think in cartoons. This can be a very valuable tool, but you obviously can also miss a lot of physics that way. Just because one configuration was unworkable doesn't mean that another will be workable. Haines' arguments seem valid to me whether you are considering the classical but impossible "open recirculating machine" with actual loops for recirculation from one cusp to another, or the neoclassical "open recirculating machine" where the electrons are supposed to be reflected and re-enter the same cusp.
TallDave wrote:As for sheaths, I thought we already decided electrons don't collapse into a Debye sheath in a Polywell.
I wouldn't say we decided that, but the sheath referred to here is not a Debye sheath but the transition region from the field-free interior to the plasma-free exterior.

Art Carlson
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Post by Art Carlson »

Munchausen wrote:
Some where, some time, some thread I estimated reactor size based on cusp losses, but I can't find it now. Can anybody help me? I thought I landed at something bloody big, but not out of this world. (Assuming D-T fuel cycle, of course.) I would like to check if these new insights change anything.
Scroll down in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=9472&highlight=400#9472
That was it. Thanks. When I get time I would like to calculate the loss term based directly on a hole area something like R*(a_e*a_i)^1/2, rather than extrapolating from current experiments.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Just because one configuration was unworkable doesn't mean that another will be workable.
Of course not, and I don't think Bussard thought that way either. It was the much better results from WB-6 vs. WB-5 that led him from "could work" to "appears to be working in a manner which may scale to a working reactor design." And recirculation was the main difference between the two machines. As I prefer to look at things empirically, I'll have to accept the data I have, such as it is, until I get something better.

Anyways, even if he were wrong about the rate of flow through the cusps, as I understand it as long as he got recirculation and a 1000:1 density ratio inside:outside it wouldn't really matter.

bsmythe
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Re: 1977 Review by Haines

Post by bsmythe »

Art Carlson wrote:In another thread somebody mentioned this as a good source on cusp confinement physics:
  • M.G.Haines, "Plasma Containment in Cusp-Shaped Magnetic Fields" (Review Paper), Nuclear Fusion 17 4(1977), pp.811-858
I had a look at it and thought there might be some interest in my observations. In the following all quotes come from the article.
I was just about to sign on and post in that thread that I struck out in getting the Haines article. The local university only has the online version of Nuclear Fusion which only goes back to 1992 or 93. Unfortunately, I'll have to go inter library loan to get my hands on a copy of the dead tree edition. I'll have to wait until then to comment on too many specifics but there were a few things that you wrote that I feel comfortable commenting on now.
Art Carlson wrote:
... the loss rates from the two point cusps equaled that from the line cusp. (p.829)
This is far and away the most interesting thing I learned, although it is obvious once it has been pointed out. I have always been claiming that we can ignore the point cusps because the hole from the line cusps will be so much bigger. But actually we could ignore the line cusps and we would still have comparable losses from the point cusps.
Thus Bussards's statement in the Valencia paper (p.9), "At this condition, the electrons inside the quasi-sphere “see“ small exit holes on the B cusp axes, whose size is 1.5-2 times their gyro radius at that energy and field strength.", is patently false, even if we assume that a miracle makes the sheath thickness a_e instead of (a_e*a_i)^1/2. Say we have a point cusp with a loss area of 1 mm^2. If we consider a circle around the cusp with 100 mm radius, then the sheath there can only be (1 mm^2)/(2*pi*100 mm) = 1.6 mu. There is no physics in hell that can keep the sheath thickness a thousandth of an electron gyroradius. I see this as confirmation - with a wholly different argument and much more robust - of my insistence on calculating losses based on line cusps.
You are calculating this based on a spindle cusp with a ring cusp to each two point cusps. In the multipole spherical geometry, you don't have that. For instance in the truncated cube arrangement, the (approximately diamond shaped) holes between the magnet coils act as magnets with opposite polarity to the actual coils due to the collective contributions of the adjacent coil segments from the three magnets that adjoin the holes. This is fairly well illustrated in one of his early papers: Some Physics Considerations of Magnetic Inertial Electrostatic Confinement: A new Concept for Spherical Converging Flow Fusion in Fusion Technology Volum 19. You can find it here:
http://www.askmar.com/Fusion_files/Some ... ations.pdf
As originally conceived, the device did not have any line cusps at all but relied on that phantom work horse of freshman physics classes, the infinitely thin magnet coil. With magnets of finite dimensions, you get a line cusp like field configuration where the magnets almost (or in earlier experiments where they did) touch. The line cusps are probably larger than the point cusps (and twice as numerous) but are in the same ball park, not on the order of 2*pi*100 greater in your example.
Art Carlson wrote: Finally, he makes an intriguing comment on multiple point cusps:
Sadowski and his co-workers have been studying plasma containment in a spherical multipole (SM) magnetic configuration for some years. It is hoped that since line cusps have been eliminated in favour of point cusps only (of large number) that plasma losses will be much reduced whilst still keeping the favourable minimum-B properties of the trap.
These comments sound inconsistent to me, but maybe one of you would like to look more closely the the SM. The latest journal article referenced is Sadowsky, M., Rev.Sci.Instrum. 40 (1969) 1545.
This was also in Dolan's bibliography for Ch 11 in Fusion Research so I got a copy of this article. From the description, it sounds suspiciously like Bussard's original patent drawings of the polywell. Sadowski did not go into the exact field configuration in that article and referred to earlier articles he had published for that. Unfortunately, by the time I read this, I had left the library and have to wait until I get back to get the earlier articles and find out.

Art Carlson
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Re: 1977 Review by Haines

Post by Art Carlson »

bsmythe wrote:
Art Carlson wrote: Finally, he makes an intriguing comment on multiple point cusps:
Sadowski and his co-workers have been studying plasma containment in a spherical multipole (SM) magnetic configuration for some years. It is hoped that since line cusps have been eliminated in favour of point cusps only (of large number) that plasma losses will be much reduced whilst still keeping the favourable minimum-B properties of the trap.
These comments sound inconsistent to me, but maybe one of you would like to look more closely the the SM. The latest journal article referenced is Sadowsky, M., Rev.Sci.Instrum. 40 (1969) 1545.
This was also in Dolan's bibliography for Ch 11 in Fusion Research so I got a copy of this article. From the description, it sounds suspiciously like Bussard's original patent drawings of the polywell. Sadowski did not go into the exact field configuration in that article and referred to earlier articles he had published for that. Unfortunately, by the time I read this, I had left the library and have to wait until I get back to get the earlier articles and find out.
It is strange that Bussard didn't mention Sadowski's work (if my memory serves me, first published in the 60's) in his patents in the discussion of the prior art. Instead he claimed "A method of confining positively charged particles comprising the steps of: (a) generating a magnetic field within a region wherein all the cusps of said magnetic field are point cusps" as his own invention.

It is equally strange that he stated in his patent application filed in 1985, "In the bi-conic mirror system the losses are predominantly through the equatorial cusp 135 because of its great extent entirely surrounding the plasma region." This directly contradicts the finding of Haines in his 1977 review that the losses from the point cusps are approximately equal to those from the line cusps.

Art Carlson
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Re: 1977 Review by Haines

Post by Art Carlson »

bsmythe wrote: You are calculating this based on a spindle cusp with a ring cusp to each two point cusps. In the multipole spherical geometry, you don't have that. For instance in the truncated cube arrangement, the (approximately diamond shaped) holes between the magnet coils act as magnets with opposite polarity to the actual coils due to the collective contributions of the adjacent coil segments from the three magnets that adjoin the holes. This is fairly well illustrated in one of his early papers: Some Physics Considerations of Magnetic Inertial Electrostatic Confinement: A new Concept for Spherical Converging Flow Fusion in Fusion Technology Volum 19. You can find it here:
http://www.askmar.com/Fusion_files/Some ... ations.pdf
As originally conceived, the device did not have any line cusps at all but relied on that phantom work horse of freshman physics classes, the infinitely thin magnet coil. With magnets of finite dimensions, you get a line cusp like field configuration where the magnets almost (or in earlier experiments where they did) touch. The line cusps are probably larger than the point cusps (and twice as numerous) but are in the same ball park, not on the order of 2*pi*100 greater in your example.
You didn't follow my argument. Forget (for now) about the line cusps. Just ask what happens in the neighborhood of the point cusps. (For the sake of argument, you could also consider a high-beta mirror, which has essentially two point cusps and no line/ring cusp. Of course, it would be MHD unstable, but that doesn't affect the argument about the loss rate.) The main elements of the argument are (1) a sheath thickness of (a_e*a_i)^1/2 (or something similar) far from the point cusp, (2) constant magnetic field strength within the sheath, and (3) conservation of flux within the sheath. (2) and (3) together imply conservation of cross-sectional area of the sheath, so I can equate the area 10 cm away (where I know how to calculate it) to the area at the cusp (which determines the losses).

Solo
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Post by Solo »

Ok, so you are saying that the sheath thickness determines the minimum size that the cusp loss hole can be, be it line or point? (And that the sheath thickness is driven to be about the hybrid Larmor for some reason or other.) I buy that.

But won't the plasma expand until the sheath is very close to the first flux surface that impacts the magrid? My reasoning for this is that the electrons diffusing out through the sheath still have to go cross-field till they get to the magrid before they are eliminated. These stray electrons should produce a negative space charge potential that should basically widen the potential well and the plasma with it.

Art Carlson
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Post by Art Carlson »

Solo wrote:Ok, so you are saying that the sheath thickness determines the minimum size that the cusp loss hole can be, be it line or point? (And that the sheath thickness is driven to be about the hybrid Larmor for some reason or other.) I buy that.
The sheath thickness is not obvious (although perhaps plausible). It is determined by a particular instability.
Solo wrote:But won't the plasma expand until the sheath is very close to the first flux surface that impacts the magrid? My reasoning for this is that the electrons diffusing out through the sheath still have to go cross-field till they get to the magrid before they are eliminated. These stray electrons should produce a negative space charge potential that should basically widen the potential well and the plasma with it.
Why do you need any cross-field physics (except on the order of the Larmor radius)? The field lines of the sheath get mapped out through the cusp directly to the wall, remember?

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Were Haines and Sadowski dealing with plasma in LTE? That might answer some of your questions above.

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