Koch bros, Libertarianism, and Holocaust Denial

[Schneibster]

This article will only be available for the next 20 hours or so. It's likely to be pretty famous, so I suggest you read it while it's free. After tonight and a short time tomorrow, it will go back behind the paywall.

Search Google for "koch brothers holocaust denial nsfw" and follow the first link. Apparently they have a script mechanism to permit the limited access; normally their entire operation is behind a paywall.

Libertarians are Holocaust deniers. Most notably von Mises and Milton Friedman. Also both Koch brothers and Ron Paul adviser Gary North. Welcome to the Libertarian Nazi Party. Now you know where all this racism against Obama came from: US Nazi admirers the Koch brothers, and Ron Paul. Hope you're proud of yourselves. Now we know for sure Paul was lying when he said his magazine wasn't racist when it called for killing all the blacks in the cities of the US in the 1980s.

These are the people responsible for ALEC, for "Stand Your Ground," for rape wands, and for the rise of the new racist movement in the Republican Party. They need to be exposed root and branch and driven out, certainly of our government if not our country. Preferably with torches and pitchforks. If this story doesn't ignite and you don't see it in a week in the mainstream media you'll know the fix is in.

[Schneibster]

Tease:

But it goes much deeper than one author in a couple of journals. Under Koch’s watch, LeFevre hired one of the most notorious Holocaust deniers to head up the new Rampart College history department: James J. Martin, who later served as an editorial director at neo-Nazi leader Willis Carto’s “Institute for Historical Review,” the largest and the worst of all America’s Holocaust denial outfits.

Enjoy.

Or not, if it's telling you you're a Nazi. In that case go home.

[kunkmiester]

Koch Brothers are hardly libertarian as I understand it. While libertarians and conservatives caucus on some things, they are different creatures. At the top, "conservatives" are little different than "liberals" with little interest besides holding power. At the lower level, libertarians are generally more concerned about moral rightness than the law itself--the wrongness of theft even extends to the government doing it.

The Holocaust is one of the greatest examples of government power out of control Every single bit of it was legal. Anyone who thinks the government should have a smidgeon more power to do any more than what's in the constitution needs to remember that, and consider carefully if they want to have anything to do with it.

[Schneibster]

Koch Brothers are hardly libertarian as I understand it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... h_brothers

They're heavily involved in the Cato Institute and Ramparts and other Libertarian hard-right organizations.

On Earth.

While libertarians

I'm a libertarian. We're not talking about libertarians. We're talking about Libertarians, who are most definitely not libertarians. Calling themselves "Libertarians" is a lie. They're Nazis. The Libertarians are not libertarian.

and conservatives caucus on some things, they are different creatures.

I agree completely. Conservatives are not libertarians. However, I also disagree: Conservatives are Libertarians. In fact Libertarians are the most racist and conservative of them all.

At the top, "conservatives" are little different than "liberals" with little interest besides holding power.

Libertarian "they're all the same" propaganda detected. Deflector shields engaged.

At the lower level, libertarians

I'm not at all convinced you aren't deliberately confusing libertarians and Libertarians. It looks like you're doing exactly that. With intent to deceive.

are generally more concerned about moral rightness than the law itself--the wrongness of theft even extends to the government doing it.

In the US we have a Constitution that prevents government theft; that's exactly why we wrote it, that's what the British were doing that we would not tolerate.

The Holocaust is one of the greatest examples of government power out of control Every single bit of it was legal. Anyone who thinks the government should have a smidgeon more power to do any more than what's in the constitution needs to remember that, and consider carefully if they want to have anything to do with it.

I might actually believe you meant that if you weren't representing the Holocaust deniers.

[kunkmiester]

Little "L" libertarians are still devoted to the idea of a government that can be contained and useful. They do vote after all.

Considering that only with a "new guard" are we actually looking at an effort to repeal a large government program, conservatives~liberals is true. How's the track record of them reversing each other once in power, aside from tax breaks?

I'll admit I've not read all of your posts, but you--at least from an environmental perspective--seemed quite liberal. To claim to be libertarian is a bit of a surprise. In this very thread you did very little to separate yourself. It's easy enough to miss the capitalization, especially when you're not expecting much emphasis on it. You're also using a decidedly leftist source. You need to do much better than that to make a convincing argument.

As for denying the Holocaust itself? You can't accuse me of denying it, don't try. Anyone with reasonable critical reading skills can see the attempt to separate the true libertarians from conservatives and faux libertarians. That connected with the last sentence should be clear.

[Schneibster]

Little "L" libertarians are still devoted to the idea of a government that can be contained and useful. They do vote after all.

So?

Considering that only with a "new guard" are we actually looking at an effort to repeal a large government program, conservatives~liberals is true. How's the track record of them reversing each other once in power, aside from tax breaks?

The Republicans have been going more and more insane since Nixon. It's ridiculous to talk about them reversing or being reversed since they started being fundie religionists, and racial bigots.

Do you seriously suppose ACA would have been as anemic as it is had the Democrats been in control, or the stimulus? Do you seriously suppose that if the Democrats were running things there would have been more stimulus bills when all the economist were saying we needed them? Only the Republicans, trying to keep Obama from "looking good," out of either racism or jealousy because the Democrats elected the first Democratic President, would deliberately tank the economy, and keep on doing it after they got caught, not just for a few months but for six years.

Calling that "the same" is an obvious lie.

I'll admit I've not read all of your posts, but you--at least from an environmental perspective--seemed quite liberal. To claim to be libertarian is a bit of a surprise. In this very thread you did very little to separate yourself. It's easy enough to miss the capitalization, especially when you're not expecting much emphasis on it. You're also using a decidedly leftist source. You need to do much better than that to make a convincing argument.

I'm not a Libertarian. And I am a libertarian. The difference is the first is marketing lies, and the second is a political alignment.

As for denying the Holocaust itself? You can't accuse me of denying it, don't try. Anyone with reasonable critical reading skills can see the attempt to separate the true libertarians from conservatives and faux libertarians. That connected with the last sentence should be clear.

Well, if you don't, then you shouldn't be a Libertarian, or claim to be one, because they all do. This is the fifth or sixth time they've been caught. It's now obvious: the Libertarians are neo-Nazis.

A libertarian is an anti-authoritarian. The Libertarians not anti-authoritarian. Simple as that.

I'm tempted to call them the "money-Nazis."

[Scupperer]

A libertarian is an anti-authoritarian.

Based on what I'm reading of your writings; you're not a libertarian of any breed. You're a full on statist of the harshest composition. A hive mind collectivist.

A true anti-authoritarian would be deadset against the ACA and everything it stands for. Tyranny is never so bold and incessant as when it's "for your own good".

One of the hallmarks of those wanting to psychologically escape freedom, as Erich Fromm noted, is a hatred for opposing views, particularly in the justification of the conflicts between what you believe you stand for and what you are actually doing.

If there's one thing perfectly clear in what you've displayed on these forums, it's plenty of hatred, and you're certainly blinded by it.

*** I thought I'd set you to ignore so I wouldn't have to read your drivel. I guess I'll have to try again.

[Schneibster]

A libertarian is an anti-authoritarian.

Based on what I'm reading of your writings; you're not a libertarian of any breed. You're a full on statist of the harshest composition. A hive mind collectivist.

Because I think Rant Paul and Wrong Paul are Nazis?

Or because you don't know the difference between no rulers and no rules, and you're still rebelling against mommy and daddy?

A true anti-authoritarian would be deadset against the ACA and everything it stands for. Tyranny is never so bold and incessant as when it's "for your own good".

Because it's authoritarian to make sure everyone gets healthcare?

See, I see Libertarians say stuff like this, but they never justify it. I have to ask after you said this: can you count? Because you're not acting like you can.

One of the hallmarks of those wanting to psychologically escape freedom, as Erich Fromm noted, is a hatred for opposing views, particularly in the justification of the conflicts between what you believe you stand for and what you are actually doing.

So do you always make up lies about how people who disagree with you "hate" you?

Speaking of psychology.

If there's one thing perfectly clear in what you've displayed on these forums, it's plenty of hatred, and you're certainly blinded by it.

Yep, looks like you do.

Wow, you guys got some real weirdos on here. I have only met one so far who even wanted to talk about fusion.

So far this place is wall-to-wall meshbacks.

*** I thought I'd set you to ignore so I wouldn't have to read your drivel. I guess I'll have to try again.

Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I'm not all that interested in discussing fusion with paranoid psychotics.

Maybe if you didn't insist on making something up in every single sentence.

[Scupperer]

So do you always make up lies about how people who disagree with you "hate" you?

"you're still rebelling against mommy and daddy?" "can you count?" "wall-to-wall meshbacks" "paranoid psychotics"

I'm sorry, which armband should I wear? Rebel? Lying liar? Meshback? Mentally Unstable? Perhaps you've already created a system for multiple combinations?

You really don't believe that all of your name-calling and personally directed insults is anything other than a naked display of hate? Is it truly a "lie" for your behavior to be pointed out to you? Is this how you deal with everything and everyone you perceive as a challenge to your opinion? Lash out against it and try to paint it as demonic or moronic so you can dismiss it instead of civilly weighing the issue raised?

Let's try again:

Because it's authoritarian to make sure everyone gets healthcare?

It's authoritarian to force everyone to get health insurance. No one's making sure they get healthcare, at least until there are mandatory doctor visits.
It's authoritarian to force everyone into a program overseen by unelected bureaucrats who have control over life and death decisions relating to their healthcare without representative review of their rule and regulation creation.
It's authoritarian to control people like that. Unless you have an entirely different opinion of what authoritarian means, in which case, please define.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an * favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, esp. that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

This is why I believe that a libertarian would never support the ACA.

Or because you don't know the difference between no rulers and no rules

lib·er·tar·i·an * 1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state. 2. One who believes in free will.

For someone who is self-declared, you certainly have no respect for 2 simply based on your behavior towards others, and you've already declared a disregard for 1 in favor of ACA, presumably under the cloak of compassion. Surely, you can understand how such a bare contradiction of ideals and ideas might raise certain questions about your hostility towards others?

Since I've been awarded a second chance to read your walls of rage by my incompetence at navigating this PhP system, and since you created a topic thread having nothing to do with Fusion and then complain about no one talking about fusion: let's talk about Fusion. What would you do with all of that cheap energy, related to the Koch Bros, Libertarianism and Holocaust Denial? Where would you start?

[Schneibster]

So do you always make up lies about how people who disagree with you "hate" you?

"you're still rebelling against mommy and daddy?" "can you count?" "wall-to-wall meshbacks" "paranoid psychotics"

That's not hate.

It's pity.

And contempt.

And you're funny, so I make fun of you. Try not being funny meshback rednecks who think climate is controlled by Jebus Claus and think there's something wrong with a black President.

[GIThruster]

You really don't believe that all of your name-calling and personally directed insults is anything other than a naked display of hate? Is it truly a "lie" for your behavior to be pointed out to you? Is this how you deal with everything and everyone you perceive as a challenge to your opinion? Lash out against it and try to paint it as demonic or moronic so you can dismiss it instead of civilly weighing the issue raised?

Yes indeed, and if you say you don't like something about the President, you will be called a racist too.

My theory is, he acts this way because he's frustrated with life, and cannot act out in person because he's a squinty little guy, so he acts out online. Obviously if he acted this way in person he'd get his head pinched off. So he settles for anonymous harassment of anyone he can find to bait.

I highly recommend the ignore option. It restores sanity to the forum.

[Diogenes]

I highly recommend the ignore option. It restores sanity to the forum.

I also wouldn't be posting in his threads because that Bumps them to the top. Especially threads entitled with nasty little hate messages.

[Betruger]

Now he just needs to add pictures to his raving.

[Stubby]

ZIIIIINNNNNG!

[Scupperer]

I highly recommend the ignore option. It restores sanity to the forum.

Done. Thought it might be worth the effort to draw out at least one half-civil, descriptive post from the nut. Sorry for the clutter.