Stuff Libertarians OUGHT to worry about more than drugs.

[Diogenes]

From your link:

Is regime change possible? The CIA could do it. We've done it before. You pay people to create labor unrest, strikes. The Iranian regime is tottering. It could be brought down. The mullahs do not trust the army. They're afraid their conscript soldiers won't fire on crowds, so they rely on Revolutionary Guards, highly paid, and on organized street thugs called the Basiji. But, you get one general to revolt and kill the political officers, make a public statement that "we must not harm the people." The Iranian people are not violent, they are not prone to riot, but a funeral leads to a demonstration, to more funerals and the protest grows. Only 55% of Iran is Persian, the rest are minorities, Arabs, Azerbaijanis -- you create problems. A truck of Iranian soldiers is blown up in the Azerbaijani region. It's not hard to do.
Iran could have a regime friendly to us. The people have experienced the mullahs; they are friendly to America, and even Israel. Under the Shah, Iran was friendly with Israel.

And if it turns out to be not as "not hard to do" as he believes?

I may not know what will absolutely work. I do know what will absolutely not work; Letting Iran get a nuclear bomb.

You prepared to send in hundreds of thousands of American troops over massive international objections to make sure we get/keep the right kind of Shah of Iran 2.0? Keep them in there for the years/decades it might take? Deal with the blow-back of Iranian inspired terrorist attacks against us being ratcheted up? Reinstate the draft to get the affordable size of the force structure we might need to make that sustainable? Draft middle/upper middle class white kids and use them that way in what would quickly be a very unpopular occupation? Deal with the resulting political unrest it might cause here as the aforementioned massively protest against the draft? Deal with whatever China would do in the meantime as we are so preoccupied? How about we get out of the Middle East instead? Try for energy independence (Fracking, tar-sands, off-shore drilling, raising fuel efficiency standards, etc.), let Europe and Russia worry about the Middle East. If they are to "weak", "socialist", "pacifist" etc. to deal with the problem of a nuclear Iran on their doorsteps, than to hell with them. Develop enough counter-terrorisms measures and SDI to protect ourselves, maybe share it with them if they are willing to pay for it, protect our own shores first, and divest ourselves of these "entangling alliances" (including NATO) the founders would have hated.

I interpret everything you say above as "Wouldn't it have been so much simpler had Jimmy Carter not completely F*cked Up Iran?"


"Why Yes. Yes it would."



I am a firm believer in the Curtis Le May school of threat prevention. We should not have let this get to the point where the Curtis Le May school of threat prevention needed to be invoked. We should have been telling Iran not only "No", but "F*ck No!" for the last thirty years or so.


National sovereignty? "F*ck You!" Iranian scientific advancement? "F*ck You!"


You do not play such games with dangerous religious fanatics in control of a relatively powerful nation, especially one with a history of conquest.


At this point, we try all that social crap and see if it will work, but if it doesn't get some pretty fast results, we Nuke the crap out of their Nuclear facilities.


We are once more standing at the edge of a precipice while Hitler contemplates taking the Sudetenland, and if we stand here and let him, future generations will be asking "Why did you not intervene before the cost became so bloody? "


The Iranians are intent on returning the 12th Imam, and working diligently towards a self fulfilling prophecy. Does anyone think there won't be hell to pay if we let them build ICBMs?


Of all the most astonishing points of historical stupidity, we are living through this one.

Get back to the idea: Americans are friends of liberty everywhere, but custodians only of their own. – John Quincy Adams
http://maureenholland.wordpress.com/quo ... -the-ages/

The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. -Thomas Paine

[williatw]

I may not know what will absolutely work. I do know what will absolutely not work; Letting Iran get a nuclear bomb.

I am a firm believer in the Curtis Le May school of threat prevention. We should not have let this get to the point where the Curtis Le May school of threat prevention needed to be invoked. We should have been telling Iran not only "No", but "F*ck No!" for the last thirty years or so.

At this point, we try all that social crap and see if it will work, but if it doesn't get some pretty fast results, we Nuke the crap out of their Nuclear facilities.

Rather than the "Curtis Lemay" option that might end up igniting the very nuclear holocaust you are trying to prevent, I would probably go first with targeted (or not so targeted) assassinations of the ruling mullahs who are believed to be the ones who have such apocalyptic ambitions. If "limited" preventative nuclear war is on the table than assassination should definitely be as well if not instead of beforehand. Apply a sort of natural selection to Iranian leadership, in favor of sanity over religious fundamentalism/insanity in the leadership class. If someone had put a bullet in Hitler's mad little head in 1935 or so that would have been allot better than an invasion in 1936 by Britain/France would have been. Do it in such a way to prevent it being traced back to us, frame some kind of "opposition" if need be. Russia (or even China) probably wouldn't object to much to that if done right. If the CIA can't manage that competently, I wouldn't trust them to engineer a full blown coup/regime change.

[Diogenes]

I may not know what will absolutely work. I do know what will absolutely not work; Letting Iran get a nuclear bomb.

I am a firm believer in the Curtis Le May school of threat prevention. We should not have let this get to the point where the Curtis Le May school of threat prevention needed to be invoked. We should have been telling Iran not only "No", but "F*ck No!" for the last thirty years or so.

At this point, we try all that social crap and see if it will work, but if it doesn't get some pretty fast results, we Nuke the crap out of their Nuclear facilities.

Rather than the "Curtis Lemay" option that might end up igniting the very nuclear holocaust you are trying to prevent, I would probably go first with targeted (or not so targeted) assassinations of the ruling mullahs who are believed to be the ones who have such apocalyptic ambitions. If "limited" preventative nuclear war is on the table than assassination should definitely be as well if not instead of beforehand. Apply a sort of natural selection to Iranian leadership, in favor of sanity over religious fundamentalism/insanity in the leadership class. If someone had put a bullet in Hitler's mad little head in 1935 or so that would have been allot better than an invasion in 1936 by Britain/France would have been. Do it in such a way to prevent it being traced back to us, frame some kind of "opposition" if need be. Russia (or even China) probably wouldn't object to much to that if done right. If the CIA can't manage that competently, I wouldn't trust them to engineer a full blown coup/regime change.

I see we have a similar view of the seriousness of this issue and merely a differing view on tactics. My suggestion of nuking their facilities is intended more as an expression of determination to prevent their acquisition of nuclear weapons than a well thought out plan for dealing with it. I think the point is, we must do SOMETHING. This is a mass tragedy in the making.


I'm not sure the Religious Fanatics at the top of the Iranian food chain are susceptible to being assassinated, notwithstanding specific American law against the US Government engaging in Assassination.


This situation in Iran makes me feel as though history's alarm bells are going off, yet no one is noticing. I felt the same way when I heard Paul Bremer announce the "De-Bathification" of the Iraqi Army and the Iraqi Government.


I just knew the sh*tstorm was about to start.

[williatw]

I interpret everything you say above as "Wouldn't it have been so much simpler had Jimmy Carter not completely F*cked Up Iran?" "Why Yes. Yes it would."

Followed by Reagan, Bush senior, Clinton, Bush jr. and Obama taking their turns at "F*cked Up Iran".

[Diogenes]

I interpret everything you say above as "Wouldn't it have been so much simpler had Jimmy Carter not completely F*cked Up Iran?" "Why Yes. Yes it would."

Followed by Reagan, Bush senior, Clinton, Bush jr. and Obama taking their turns at "F*cked Up Iran".

Doing nothing becomes increasingly culpable as time runs out.

Reagan DID threaten to go to war with Iran, but after they released the hostages, he had no casus belli. I can fault no subsequent Presidents except Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, though George W. Bush might bear some responsibility for not working harder to resolve the issue prior to Obama.


Bill Clinton had a deliberate act of war provocation, and not only refused to take any action, but ordered all agencies within his control to LIE about what happened so as to prevent the public from knowing what actually happened. (The shooting down of Flight 800 by Iranian agents.)

In any case, standing by and doing nothing after the fact, is a very different thing from contributing to the overthrow of a friendly government and then standing by while the subsequent government engages in acts of war against us.


Jimmy Carter is the fool who got us into this situation with Iran. Nobody else did that.


Just stumbled onto this timely story on the topic.



Ex-CIA Director Compares Obama’s Dealings with Iran to Actions of Notorious Nazi Appeaser

Woolsey, CIA director from 1993 to 1995, told Sexton that Obama’s dealings with the Iranian government have been “roughly equivalent to Neville Chamberlain’s at Munich in the 1930s.”

“We are basically caving in,” Woolsey said.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02 ... -appeaser/


Bill Clinton's own CIA directer thinks Obama is bungling this.

[williatw]

I'm not sure the Religious Fanatics at the top of the Iranian food chain are susceptible to being assassinated, notwithstanding specific American law against the US Government engaging in Assassination.

Uh..I am afraid we are all "susceptible" to death by assassination (and other means, of course); we are talking about a few hundred to perhaps some thousands of top "mullahs" from which the Supreme Leaders are culled, not just the SL himself. As far as US law forbidding assassinations, the last few years of Obama's escalated drone (and other kinds) of assassinations have effectively but the kibosh on that. I think "heads of state" are supposedly still off the table, but what if he wasn't the target and was only accidently taken out in the crossfire. And of course done the right way, our involvement could be kept secret... I suspect "President Hillary Clinton" wouldn't have to much of a problem with that sort of thing.

[GIThruster]

An Iranian leader assassination by an outside force would only fuel the anti-American rhetoric in Iran. The Iranian people already hate the Mullahs. They have hundreds of reasons to. The fantastical quality of their hypocrisy running a supposed theocracy is front and center for every Iranian to see. The trouble is, the Iranian people have not chosen to do anything about their leadership. until they do, they are stuck with what they have and no one from outside is going to somehow deliver them.

Iran, run by religious leaders, and past Iraq, which was a secular though totalitarian society, have nothing in common. It's one thing to deliver people from a dictator they hate. It's another to alter their religion and culture in fundamental ways. That is not inside the sphere of influence of America or any outsider.

[williatw]

I see we have a similar view of the seriousness of this issue and merely a differing view on tactics. My suggestion of nuking their facilities is intended more as an expression of determination to prevent their acquisition of nuclear weapons than a well thought out plan for dealing with it. I think the point is, we must do SOMETHING. This is a mass tragedy in the making.

Iranian commander: We have targets within America

A top commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards boasted Saturday that his forces have plans in place to attack the United States from within, should the U.S. attack the Islamic Republic.

“America, with its strategic ignorance, does not have a full understanding of the power of the Islamic Republic,” Brig. Gen. Hossein Salami said in a televised interview. “We have recognized America’s military strategy, and have arranged our abilities, and have identified centers in America [for attack] that will create a shock.”
“We will conduct such a blow in which they [America] will be destroyed from within,” Salami said.

This is the second warning by a high-ranking officer of the Guards in two weeks. The chief commander of the Guards, Maj. Gen. Mohammad Jafari, addressing Secretary of State John Kerry, said on Jan. 24 that a direct conflict with America is the “strongest dream of the faithful and revolutionary men around the world.”

Kerry had previously said that if Iran did not live up to the agreement reached in Geneva on its nuclear program, “all options are on the table.”

“Your threats to revolutionary Islam are the best opportunity,” Jafari had said. “Muslim leaders for years have been preparing us for a decisive battle.… Do you know how many thousands of revolutionary Muslims at the heart of the Islamic revolutionary groups around the world are awaiting for you to take this [military] option from the table into action?”

Reports indicate that terrorist Hezbollah forces — allies of Iran — have infiltrated the U.S. and have mapped out targets.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/01/irani ... n-america/#!

If this isn't a justification for targeted assasination don't know what is. They are publically announcing their ability/probable intention to terrorist attack us. The Congressional authorization to use whatever means to prosecute the War on Terror (used so far for the drone attacks & other special opts) should cover this as well. And we have such a nice picture of him...should make him easy to identify.

[Diogenes]

http://thewilderness.me/everythingisawesome/

[Diogenes]

http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/19/19f/

Throughout last night, panicked people told their stories of state-sponsored paramilitaries on motorcycles roaming middle class neighborhoods, shooting at people and storming into apartment buildings, shooting at anyone who seemed like he might be protesting.

http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/20 ... ast-night/

[Diogenes]

WAR! Armored Personnel Carrier Firebombed in Kiev’s Independence Square – Snipers Fire on Protesters







http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/02 ... d=noscript

[Diogenes]

STATE-RUN MEDIA: FCC to Police Newsrooms

How does the FCC plan to dig up all that information? First, the agency selected eight categories of “critical information” such as the “environment” and “economic opportunities,” that it believes local newscasters should cover. It plans to ask station managers, news directors, journalists, television anchors and on-air reporters to tell the government about their “news philosophy” and how the station ensures that the community gets critical information.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/02 ... d=noscript

[williatw]

Mysterious explosion rocks Iranian nuclear facility

The Jerusalem Post reported on Monday that a huge explosion has rocked an Iranian nuclear facility near Tehran. The facility, located in the Parchin military compound, was said to be so intense that windows were broken nine miles away. Reports of what kind of damage may have been inflicted have not been forthcoming, but at least two people lost their lives in the explosion. Israel National News indicated that one of the dead was a “nuclear expert.”

The explosion is reported to have been caused by a fire in an explosive materials storage facility. Media reports do not indicate whether the fire was accidental or deliberate. But the fact that the Israeli Mossad has been conducting a campaign of sabotage against the Iranian nuclear program in an open secret.

The Israeli campaign included targeted assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists as Der Spiegel reported several years ago. Some unknown entity, either the Mossad, the CIA or both introduced a computer virus called Stuxnet that sabotage Iranian nuclear centrifuges that are critical for enriching uranium to bomb-grade material. Israeli and American officials have refused to confirm or deny that such a sabotage campaign is taking place.

http://www.examiner.com/article/mysteri ... r-facility

[MSimon]

Well yes. Lots of things to worry about. But the Prohibition is operating here and now. Imprisoning people unjustly. Killing he innocent. Denying people medicine. And racist enforcement. And that is just in the US.

If it is such a distraction (Bush thought so after 9/11) maybe you ought to work to end it.

I might add that on the medical front - if fully exploited - cannabinoids could save from $500 bn to $1.5 trillion a year - in the US alone.

If applied to the actual national debt it could retire it in 10 to 30 years.

And since cannabis is a cure for cancer we could stop killing 500,000 people a year it costs to keep Prohibition running.