Stupidity was critical to Obamacare's passage ...

[Diogenes]

Something I posted in another thread. Applicable here.

=============================

The ironic thing about the medical issue is that we have medical science that will lower medical costs by something on the order of $1 trillion a year and it is being bottled up by Republicans over culture war issues.

Fortunately Republicans are losing the culture war.

Cut the cost of medicine by $1 trillion a year and it goes away as an issue. Cures for cancer, cheap treatment for auto-immune diseases (like about 2/3rds of diabetes), pain management with a LOT fewer opiates. And that is just the short list. And you can grow your medicine in the garden. One harvest gives at least a years worth of medicine. No more difficult than tomatoes. And because the medicine is not very lethal (no more lethal than tomatoes) it can be used without much oversight. We won't need a medical establishment to manage this. Medicine - except for injuries - will go back to being a small time affair. If we do it right.

With government so heavily involved in medicine it will be a revolution in the cost of government. Held up by the Culture War.

The ironies abound.

People will notice this in time and the Culture War Party will be tremendously hurt. You can't say you weren't warned.

It is insane that you think giving everyone weed will save a trillion dollars per year.


You and the Obamacare architects would be right at home with each other. Both of you believe in Rainbow Farting Unicorns.

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't be so fast with the prisons and trials. Republicans have been killing 100,000 a year for at least 40 years because their Culture War has prevented a near universal cheap non-invasive cure for cancer.

If you start stringing people up for good intentions gone bad there will be quite a few Republicans swinging in the wind.

If mens rhea is no longer a defense no one is safe.

"They just wanted to keep their political faction in power" should be a defense. And that should include the stock in trade of politics. Lies. It should not be up to the courts to punish the liars. That job is the responsibility of the voters. If they abdicate their responsibilities they get what they deserve. You know the adage. People get the government they deserve. Good and hard.

No Simon. I'm not even going to buy into your false premises.

[Diogenes]

Stupidity was critical to Obamacare's passage ...

Also lies. Lots and lots of lies.


Obamacare architect in 6th video: 'Mislabeling' helped us get rid of tax breaks

Washington (CNN) -- In a 2011 conversation about the Affordable Care Act, MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, one of the architects of the law more commonly known as Obamacare, talked about how the bill would get rid of all tax credits for employer-based health insurance through "mislabeling" what the tax is and who it would hit.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/ ... index.html

[mvanwink5]

Annnnd here is the Progressive arrogant belief and justification, "to create a law that would ultimately be good for them."

Stark naked, arrogant, overlords, caring for the little people. How do they get their pants on in the morning if there is a mirror in the house? The liberals in my High School class thought this elitist way and it looks like hubris followed them through their whole life.

[mvanwink5]

John Kerry was exceptionally helpful in strategic and clever Obamacare bill wording to hide the tax machinations. A life dedicated to the Progressive cause is responsible for honing such artful subterfuge.

[MSimon]

It is insane that you think giving everyone weed will save a trillion dollars per year.

Of course it is. If you haven't studied it.

How much do you know about the endocannabinoid system? Do you follow the research?

But let us look at some numbers to get a feel.
Eliminate cancer - direct cost $85 bn a year.
Cut diabetes by 2/3rds. $117 bn a year

And that is just two items of hundreds. And we are up to $200 bn without much looking. It adds up. And those are only direct costs. Indirect costs (like premature mortality and productivity losses) double those numbers.

$1 trillion a year is probably conservative. But I'm only counting direct costs.

But you would rather have a culture war (proved by the fact that you haven't even studied the material I have posted) than save $1 trillion a year. A rather expensive culture you got there friend. It won't last. And you and your friends will be excoriated for decades because you worked against this. On moral grounds no less. Because healing the sick with cannabis is morally wrong. Too funny. In a very perverse sort of way. Not to mention all the people who died that didn't have to. Some people are going to be very angry about that. For a very long time. And they will tell their friends.

Now what is ironic is that the people on the right side of this issue are socialists. What do you think it will do to their political fortunes? What do you think it will do to yours?

Now even funnier. When my former Rabbi visited about a year and a half ago to talk about this aprox 1/2 to 3/4s of the congregation knew as much as I did on the issue. In fact they knew more than the Rabbi. And he was running a dispensary in DC. The word is getting out. But you will be disappointed to hear that the congregation is predominantly of the left. I'm the odd man out there.

I hang out on line with the medical cannabis crowd. And the vitriol against the right is something to behold. And it is not isolated. I try to counter that. But it is an uphill battle. Thanks to your efforts. Way to go. What is most heartbreaking is the sick who are crying out for this medicine and yet are denied. You are creating a tremendous reservoir of ill will. And that will translate to lifetimes of political opposition.

But pay no attention. Write me off as another crazy dope addled loon. The karma is going to be a bit*h. For you.

Have a nice day.

[MSimon]

580,000+ people die every year from cancer. They have relatives. The US government has known of cannabis' effect on cancer since 1974.

So let us get a rough estimate: 1/2 a million a year for 40 years is 20 million deaths from just one cause attributable to Prohibition. That is mass murder. Right up there with anything Stalin, Mao, or the Austrian Corporal accomplished. What exactly will those numbers do to politics? I look forward to finding out. Because so far this is not well known. But it is only a matter of time.

[hanelyp]

MSimon believes pot is good medicine. Those of us on the conservative side of the drug issue see it as the new snake oil: It make the user feel good but doesn't help the disease.

[MSimon]

MSimon believes pot is good medicine. Those of us on the conservative side of the drug issue see it as the new snake oil: It make the user feel good but doesn't help the disease.

You might want to learn how your endocannabinoid system works. The lefties are studying it like crazy.

You have more cannabinoid receptors in your body than any other kind.

You might want to look into how that system fights cancer.

In the end when the world knows this stuff and attacks you for your intransigence, ignorance will be no excuse. After all the information is out there from Government sources. NIH has it. NCI has it. And if you want to look, anecdotal evidence abounds.

It is especially ironic around here because a few of you have vowed not to look. Mostly "conservatives". I have posted numerous NIH and NCI abstracts and links.

What is in your mind does not match reality. Reality will not forgive you.

Funny enough the left works the same when it comes to AGW. Must be human nature.

You have been taught to hate blue eyes. Best to unlearn that. It is not helping you.

It is not the first time. You will recall the Germans and their aversion to "Jewish science." Your malady is an aversion to "hippie doper science". It will not help you because the science is as solid as relativity and quantum mechanics.

[ladajo]

I am pretty much to the point where if I see Simon has posted to a thread, I ignore the thread and hit "mark all read". As usual he continues with the incessant pro-drup propanganda based in half truths, misrepresentations and even just lies.
I see he is heading that way on this one as well.
Oh well, another thread I will no longer follow.
I really am sick of this childishness.
He is really starting to come across like that lunatic that showed up here a while back trying to get banned.

[MSimon]

I am pretty much to the point where if I see Simon has posted to a thread, I ignore the thread and hit "mark all read". As usual he continues with the incessant pro-drup propanganda based in half truths, misrepresentations and even just lies.
I see he is heading that way on this one as well.
Oh well, another thread I will no longer follow.
I really am sick of this childishness.
He is really starting to come across like that lunatic that showed up here a while back trying to get banned.

So what do you know about how the body's endocannabinoid system works? I'll wager nothing.

But we can narrow it down to start. What do you know about how the body's endocannabinoid system works to fight cancer?

A couple of sentences will do.

[MSimon]

I am pretty much to the point where if I see Simon has posted to a thread, I ignore the thread and hit "mark all read". As usual he continues with the incessant pro-drup propanganda based in half truths, misrepresentations and even just lies.
I see he is heading that way on this one as well.
Oh well, another thread I will no longer follow.
I really am sick of this childishness.
He is really starting to come across like that lunatic that showed up here a while back trying to get banned.

Well I do have the NIH on my side:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24977967

Further research and especially, clinical trials will further demonstrate the usefulness of medical cannabis. As legal barriers fall and scientific bias fades this will become more apparent.

You wouldn't be one of those scientifically biased would you? You can prove you are not by answering my question (above) about the endocannabinoid system and cancer.

[paperburn1]

It does get very annoying when the thread turn hard left and becomes a pro pot venue.
It is not an obsession for me.

[Betruger]

MSimon is there in this universe a spacetime configuration where nothing will get people to listen anymore, no matter how true what you say is? Where you might realize this and reconsider your strategy.

[MSimon]

MSimon is there in this universe a spacetime configuration where nothing will get people to listen anymore, no matter how true what you say is? Where you might realize this and reconsider your strategy.

I don't write for the people who don't listen. I write for the people who will listen. And the people who don't listen have been complaining since I started writing on the subject. And yet - my position is gaining ground and theirs is losing ground.

What would be the point of shutting up now? Every word they utter on a subject of which they are ignorant advances my cause. I present science (NIH no less) and all they have is belief and vitriol. People notice.

In any case my point for the people who don't listen is that you are on the losing side of the issue and it would be better politically to give up opposition. It may not be true today. But it will be true eventually and I will get a huge burst of schadenfreude from it.

Prohibition is morally wrong and Federally it is unconstitutional. There is no Drug Prohibition Amendment.

And further - it is a matter of religion. "Christians" are on one side and Jews on the other. I side with the Jews. (not universally true - but generally)

And it is also a matter of racist enforcement. I'm against racism. Prohibition has been used as a tool to destroy minorities. And if you look at the history that was its original intent. That is morally very wrong. Evil.

And then there is the matter of at least 500,000 a year who wouldn't be dying if this medicine was fully exploited. Killing that many people a year to support a failed policy is morally very wrong. Evil in fact. Right up there with Stalin, Mao, and the Austrian Corporal.

There is the prison-industrial complex which needs to be trimmed way back.

I see a LOT of reasons there for not shutting up. I will not be silent.

Now if I was actually a raving lunatic I could be safely ignored. But that is not the case. My arguments are backed by evidence (I like the NIH). Even my political arguments have the backing of the voters. I assume that is the most troubling part of all this for those who would prefer not to listen.

It is the "I'm not listening" folks who have the problem. And the more they don't listen the worse their position is. So the negativity I get for focusing on the issue actually helps. It has been helping for a very long time. I began making these arguments on a Law Enforcement thread on FIDO Net in the early 80s. When support was in the low 20s at best. And I was told by the LEO and a very large majority that I was WRONG. I'm now at over 51% nationwide (generally) and still gaining ground.

You would think that out of political self preservation if nothing else people would be changing their minds. Nope.

When the Prohibitionists go silent (Drug Loons?) so will I.