Indeed, he is. His work has inspired me for decades now.Gary is an undervalued treasure to the space community.
Space X to build reusable launch vehicle
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rjaypeters
- Posts: 869
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
- Location: Summerville SC, USA
In another thread (for which I don't have time to search) we speculated on Scaled Composite's next step. With more information, speculate some more:
Allen Places Big Bet On Air Launches
"In what is probably the year’s most exotic approach to space launch, billionaire entrepreneur Paul Allen and aircraft designer Burt Rutan aim to use the equivalent of two Boeing 747-400s to carry a Falcon 9-derivative rocket to 30,000-35,000 ft. for an air-drop launch of satellites or humans into low Earth orbit."
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... ll&prev=10
A subsonic zero stage concept which will no doubt disappoint the ex-rocket man.
Allen Places Big Bet On Air Launches
"In what is probably the year’s most exotic approach to space launch, billionaire entrepreneur Paul Allen and aircraft designer Burt Rutan aim to use the equivalent of two Boeing 747-400s to carry a Falcon 9-derivative rocket to 30,000-35,000 ft. for an air-drop launch of satellites or humans into low Earth orbit."
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... ll&prev=10
A subsonic zero stage concept which will no doubt disappoint the ex-rocket man.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence
R. Peters
R. Peters
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
Via NBF:
More info on the Merlin 1D and how they hope to achieve reusability:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/01/improv ... .html#more
More info on the Merlin 1D and how they hope to achieve reusability:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/01/improv ... .html#more
PaydirtEven Competitors want Spacex to Succeed
SpaceX has the immediate hurdle of converting the doubters with a track record of low cost and reliability. Rivals know that success would hit the rocket business like a tsunami, and at least one aerospace engineer greets that prospect with a mix of hope and doubt. “Honestly, as an American, I want them to succeed,” says Mike Hughes, who works for a company (he asked that it not be named) planning a competing crew vehicle.
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
SPACEX TEST FIRES ADVANCED NEW ENGINE
New Video Shows SuperDraco Engine in Action
Hawthorne, CA – Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) has successfully test fired SuperDraco, a powerful new engine that will play a critical role in the company’s efforts to change the future of human spaceflight.
WATCH THE VIDEO: http://youtu.be/PUUnYgo1-lI
“SuperDraco engines represent the best of cutting edge technology,” said Elon Musk, SpaceX CEO and Chief Technology Officer. “These engines will power a revolutionary launch escape system that will make Dragon the safest spacecraft in history and enable it to land propulsively on Earth or another planet with pinpoint accuracy.”
The SuperDraco is an advanced version of the Draco engines currently used by SpaceX’s Dragon spacecraft to maneuver on orbit and during reentry. As part of SpaceX’s state-of-the-art launch escape system, eight SuperDraco engines built into the side walls of the Dragon spacecraft will produce up to 120,000 pounds of axial thrust to carry astronauts to safety should an emergency occur during launch.
NASA’s Commercial Crew Program awarded SpaceX $75 million in April of last year to begin work developing the escape system in order to prepare the Dragon spacecraft to carry astronauts. Less than nine months later, SpaceX engineers have designed, built and tested the engine.
In a series of recent tests conducted at the company’s Rocket Development Facility in McGregor, Texas, the SuperDraco sustained full duration, full thrust firing as well as a series of deep throttling demonstrations.
SpaceX’s launch escape system has many advantages over past systems. It is inherently safer because it is not jettisoned like all other
escape systems. This distinction provides astronauts with the unprecedented ability to escape from danger at any point during the launch,
not just in the first few minutes. The eight SuperDracos provide redundancy, so that even if one engine fails an escape can still be carried
out successfully.
SuperDracos can also be restarted multiple times if necessary and the engines will have the ability to deep throttle, providing astronauts with precise control and enormous power. In addition, as a part of a recoverable Dragon spacecraft, the engines can be used repeatedly, helping to advance SpaceX’s long-term goal of making spacecraft more like airplanes, which can be flown again and again with minimal maintenance between flights.
SuperDraco engines will provide the Dragon spacecraft with the capability to perform on target propulsive landings
anywhere in the solar system. Credit: SpaceX
SuperDraco engines will power a revolutionary launch escape system that will make SpaceX’s Dragon the safest spacecraft
in the world. Eight SuperDraco engines built into the side walls of the Dragon spacecraft will produce up to 120,000 pounds
of axial thrust to carry astronauts to safety should an emergency occur during launch. Credit: SpaceX
New Video Shows SuperDraco Engine in Action
Hawthorne, CA – Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) has successfully test fired SuperDraco, a powerful new engine that will play a critical role in the company’s efforts to change the future of human spaceflight.
WATCH THE VIDEO: http://youtu.be/PUUnYgo1-lI
“SuperDraco engines represent the best of cutting edge technology,” said Elon Musk, SpaceX CEO and Chief Technology Officer. “These engines will power a revolutionary launch escape system that will make Dragon the safest spacecraft in history and enable it to land propulsively on Earth or another planet with pinpoint accuracy.”
The SuperDraco is an advanced version of the Draco engines currently used by SpaceX’s Dragon spacecraft to maneuver on orbit and during reentry. As part of SpaceX’s state-of-the-art launch escape system, eight SuperDraco engines built into the side walls of the Dragon spacecraft will produce up to 120,000 pounds of axial thrust to carry astronauts to safety should an emergency occur during launch.
NASA’s Commercial Crew Program awarded SpaceX $75 million in April of last year to begin work developing the escape system in order to prepare the Dragon spacecraft to carry astronauts. Less than nine months later, SpaceX engineers have designed, built and tested the engine.
In a series of recent tests conducted at the company’s Rocket Development Facility in McGregor, Texas, the SuperDraco sustained full duration, full thrust firing as well as a series of deep throttling demonstrations.
SpaceX’s launch escape system has many advantages over past systems. It is inherently safer because it is not jettisoned like all other
escape systems. This distinction provides astronauts with the unprecedented ability to escape from danger at any point during the launch,
not just in the first few minutes. The eight SuperDracos provide redundancy, so that even if one engine fails an escape can still be carried
out successfully.
SuperDracos can also be restarted multiple times if necessary and the engines will have the ability to deep throttle, providing astronauts with precise control and enormous power. In addition, as a part of a recoverable Dragon spacecraft, the engines can be used repeatedly, helping to advance SpaceX’s long-term goal of making spacecraft more like airplanes, which can be flown again and again with minimal maintenance between flights.
SuperDraco engines will provide the Dragon spacecraft with the capability to perform on target propulsive landings
anywhere in the solar system. Credit: SpaceX
SuperDraco engines will power a revolutionary launch escape system that will make SpaceX’s Dragon the safest spacecraft
in the world. Eight SuperDraco engines built into the side walls of the Dragon spacecraft will produce up to 120,000 pounds
of axial thrust to carry astronauts to safety should an emergency occur during launch. Credit: SpaceX
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
I'm pretty surprised the Superdracos can give a fully laden capsule about 6 gee acceleration. I would never have guessed that much thrust would be available.
Last edited by GIThruster on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
There is an article and interview with Elon Musk on Popular Mechanics about how he is going to achieve reusability of the Falcon 9 (and as it appears also of the Falcon Heavy).
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... =pm_latest
Bulletpoints:
1st stage separation at mach 6 instead of mach 10 and more powerful second stage to compensate for that. [this should change our back of the envelope calculations a lot, less down range to return from and less reentry speed so probably no or very little heatshield]
40% payload reduction from reusability [interesting number to work with]
Reuse stage 100 times.
Turnarround for first stage 10 hours or less
Turnarround for second stage 24 hours (it has to complete a full orbit before returning which takes time).
Expect several grasshopper flights this year and going supersonic with it in Q4.
I believe that a lot of these estimates are optimistic, but if Musk manages to just launch a fully seated or loaded Dragon with the reusable F9, he wins a lot.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... =pm_latest
Bulletpoints:
1st stage separation at mach 6 instead of mach 10 and more powerful second stage to compensate for that. [this should change our back of the envelope calculations a lot, less down range to return from and less reentry speed so probably no or very little heatshield]
40% payload reduction from reusability [interesting number to work with]
Reuse stage 100 times.
Turnarround for first stage 10 hours or less
Turnarround for second stage 24 hours (it has to complete a full orbit before returning which takes time).
Expect several grasshopper flights this year and going supersonic with it in Q4.
I believe that a lot of these estimates are optimistic, but if Musk manages to just launch a fully seated or loaded Dragon with the reusable F9, he wins a lot.
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CaptainBeowulf
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am
Is this based on the Falcon 9 or Falcon 9 Heavy?
If you treat a Falcon 9 Heavy as a partially reusable "three" stage, this could work. Say the two side cores separate at Mach 6 and don't need heatshield, just some extra fuel to come back down. Due to crossfeed the core stage is still mostly fueled at this stage, and throttles up to full power, being the "second" stage, and then the upper stage is the "third."
If this leads to a 40% payload reduction, then F9H goes from 53MT to LEO to 31MT to Leo... and IIRC F9H was originally supposed to be around 35MT to LEO. 31MT to LEO still probably beats current Atlas V and Delta IV "heavy" designs, although not the theoretical designs that ULA has on paper and say they could put together if need arose.
31MT is more than enough for a beefed up Dragon with extra fuel for descent rockets etc.
So, that way you would get back the two booster stages and the Dragon capsule... that's two out of three tanks and 18 out of 27 Merline 1D engines. It seems feasible that with a bit of practice and some engineering tweaking those parts could indeed be turned around within days and flown on another new core stage.
So even if basic F9 reusability is very difficult, a 50% reusable F9H can probably realistically be done. Would getting 31MT to orbit and reusing the "first stage" boosters be cheaper than getting 53MT to orbit and throwing away everything? Don't know, but conceivably...
The other thing to consider with F9H is that, AFAIK, SpaceX can only put about a 5 metre payload fairing on the 3.6 metre core. With 53MT to LEO, you'd probably be much more payload volume limited than weight limited. Might be that no one will build anything that heavy to go into that amount of space... so 31MT and partially reusable might be much better than 53MT.
The equation changes if SpaceX succeeds in building a larger diameter core with bigger engines... but that's where things will start to get really expensive.
On another note, does anyone think the F9H might cause Boeing/LockMart/ULA to respond by throwing together something really big? Say 5 metre Delta IV heavy tanks with AJ-500 (NK-33 based) engines (implying a switch to Kerolox for first stage) and their own crossfeed implementation? There have been a couple of passing references to such a thing in newspaper articles with the off-the-cuff comment that it would be about 75MT to LEO. It could probably carry a 7 metre payload fairing too, so more volume to use the weight.
If you treat a Falcon 9 Heavy as a partially reusable "three" stage, this could work. Say the two side cores separate at Mach 6 and don't need heatshield, just some extra fuel to come back down. Due to crossfeed the core stage is still mostly fueled at this stage, and throttles up to full power, being the "second" stage, and then the upper stage is the "third."
If this leads to a 40% payload reduction, then F9H goes from 53MT to LEO to 31MT to Leo... and IIRC F9H was originally supposed to be around 35MT to LEO. 31MT to LEO still probably beats current Atlas V and Delta IV "heavy" designs, although not the theoretical designs that ULA has on paper and say they could put together if need arose.
31MT is more than enough for a beefed up Dragon with extra fuel for descent rockets etc.
So, that way you would get back the two booster stages and the Dragon capsule... that's two out of three tanks and 18 out of 27 Merline 1D engines. It seems feasible that with a bit of practice and some engineering tweaking those parts could indeed be turned around within days and flown on another new core stage.
So even if basic F9 reusability is very difficult, a 50% reusable F9H can probably realistically be done. Would getting 31MT to orbit and reusing the "first stage" boosters be cheaper than getting 53MT to orbit and throwing away everything? Don't know, but conceivably...
The other thing to consider with F9H is that, AFAIK, SpaceX can only put about a 5 metre payload fairing on the 3.6 metre core. With 53MT to LEO, you'd probably be much more payload volume limited than weight limited. Might be that no one will build anything that heavy to go into that amount of space... so 31MT and partially reusable might be much better than 53MT.
The equation changes if SpaceX succeeds in building a larger diameter core with bigger engines... but that's where things will start to get really expensive.
On another note, does anyone think the F9H might cause Boeing/LockMart/ULA to respond by throwing together something really big? Say 5 metre Delta IV heavy tanks with AJ-500 (NK-33 based) engines (implying a switch to Kerolox for first stage) and their own crossfeed implementation? There have been a couple of passing references to such a thing in newspaper articles with the off-the-cuff comment that it would be about 75MT to LEO. It could probably carry a 7 metre payload fairing too, so more volume to use the weight.
This is for the F9. It is also speculated that the FH might use the same technology to reuse the two booster rockets. I am not sure the concept would work for the core stage, since it would probably not make orbit while being to far downrange and to fast. The second FH stage would be reusable though.
Is Commercial Space Transportation reaching a tipping Point?
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/02/is-com ... ation.html
I think that Obama may be doing the wrong thing (cutting space or at least flat funding) for the wrong reason (because he doesn't give a rip about space) but accidently in spite of himself may help usher end a space renaissance
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/02/is-com ... ation.html
I think that Obama may be doing the wrong thing (cutting space or at least flat funding) for the wrong reason (because he doesn't give a rip about space) but accidently in spite of himself may help usher end a space renaissance
The space industry is one of those industries that should probably be privatized with a regulating body (NASA).williatw wrote:Is Commercial Space Transportation reaching a tipping Point?
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/02/is-com ... ation.html
I think that Obama may be doing the wrong thing (cutting space or at least flat funding) for the wrong reason (because he doesn't give a rip about space) but accidently in spite of himself may help usher end a space renaissance