Skynet is coming.

[ladajo]

In any event, for the record, and on a different topic, I really do love LADAR. Some of the stuff I have seen lately has been AMAZING. This does not even come close to stuff "They" are doing with it.

[ScottL]

Have to agree... What's ridiculous about that robot mule? Have you seen its development video footage? It's agility's just excellent.

I often get ahead of myself assuming how I see something is how others see it. Let me elaborate by scenario. You're a soldier, fighting the front lines, and this spider-bot is coming towards you with much needed supplies. The robot reaches you and you're thinking "thank god, I need ammo...etc." Meanwhile the enemy, well within rocket-propelled grenade range, goes, "hmmmm I wonder why it stopped there, perhaps I should aim there" and if the robot could articulate a sentence, it might be "I'm refueling my troops, so please don't aim here bad guys."

This thing, if used on the front lines, seems like a giant bullseye. If not used on the frontlines, and clearly not used in stealth missions, would be for resupply of other lines which a truck can carry more. It's great for getting to non-combating troops in a hard to reach location, but how often do you send troops out to a bad location to sit for days on end and how often are people not going to notice a large spider-bot walking through.

Finally, I'm guessing trucks and jeeps might be a hair cheaper than these guys and utilize less energy in the grand scheme of things.

[ladajo]

These bots are not tactical (yet - being worked on). They are trash haulers. That said, if a supported squad/platoon gets into it, there is no reason the bot handler couldn't just park it in a convenient spot and use it as a resupply cache during the fight. They squat right to the dirt, which is handy.
The other point is that these things are made to go where utility vehicles can not. That is the entire point. They are designed to support foot patrol, foot movement. You can even walk one up a stairwell or have it ride an elevator inside a building. Extremely useful stuff. The even have a medivac rig for it to transport non self-mobiles.

They really do add another dimension to ground combat that has been limited to date. The ability to haul kit effectively in non-vehicle access areas. As we like to say, one is none, two is one.

[Diogenes]

Not exactly on topic, but related in my opinion. You guys might find this enjoyable.


VIDEO: Home Invasion – A tale of Nanny State laws gone too far.

Ever wonder what would happen if so called “common sense” gun laws were taken to the extreme. What would you do if an intruder came into your home and you had to jump through bureaucratic hoops to defend yourself. This video explores that concept. This film is a protest to the expansion of “Nanny State” laws that are taking root in places like California, New York, Illinois, and Washington D.C. just to name a few. It’s just a matter of time before we are all wearing our state required helmets when we walk down the street.

http://www.coiledsnake.com/2011/09/16/home-invasion/

[ScottL]

These bots are not tactical (yet - being worked on). They are trash haulers. That said, if a supported squad/platoon gets into it, there is no reason the bot handler couldn't just park it in a convenient spot and use it as a resupply cache during the fight. They squat right to the dirt, which is handy.
The other point is that these things are made to go where utility vehicles can not. That is the entire point. They are designed to support foot patrol, foot movement. You can even walk one up a stairwell or have it ride an elevator inside a building. Extremely useful stuff. The even have a medivac rig for it to transport non self-mobiles.

They really do add another dimension to ground combat that has been limited to date. The ability to haul kit effectively in non-vehicle access areas. As we like to say, one is none, two is one.

I'm just saying, in a hypothetical world, if you and I are at war and I see this thing stop to resupply you, I know where I'm aiming first. If they remain for non tactical situations, it still seems out of place for me in many instances (not all). I don't think these are "game-changers," but more of a compliment much the way air fresheners are to the bathroom. Needed, nope, nice to have, yes, potentially harm, yes.

[Betruger]

Filling and optimizing all those little gaps is what logistics are all about... Instead of encumbered human carriers, you've got an obedient mule to offload that burden to, that can be produced on demand and whose only complaint is when it runs out of juice.

[Diogenes]

Old School Skynet:


“Shall We All Commit Suicide?” or, Winston Churchill Imagines Drone Warfare, 1924

“”Could not explosives… be guided automatically in flying machines by wireless or other rays, without a human pilot, in ceaseless procession on a hostile city, arsenal, camp, or dockyard?”

http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/ ... fare-1924/

[ScottL]

Cool ideas to be sure, but we lack the ability to create awareness. If you assume awareness is the summation of experiences and weighted decision, you're looking at an impressive database with highspeed search (think google) combined with adaptable neural networks for weighted decision making also requiring high throughput. None of these things are small and/or transferrable to individual units. It's safe to say a skynet system with todays' tech could be targetted and shutdown rather quickly.

[Luzr]

Cool ideas to be sure, but we lack the ability to create awareness.

Yet. If Moore's law continues to work, we get there by around 2040.

In fact, I think the combined HW of world or even some google data center _might_ have the raw HW power now (if you count in that brain might be ineffective dealing with all that biology stuff). The problem is lack of algorithm...

At least we know that awarness algorithm can be compressed to about 0,5GB of data (human DNA code).

[ScottL]

Cool ideas to be sure, but we lack the ability to create awareness.

Yet. If Moore's law continues to work, we get there by around 2040.

In fact, I think the combined HW of world or even some google data center _might_ have the raw HW power now (if you count in that brain might be ineffective dealing with all that biology stuff). The problem is lack of algorithm...

At least we know that awarness algorithm can be compressed to about 0,5GB of data (human DNA code).

I don't see this happening without a break-through like the integrated circuit. You're talking nano-scale development for just the hardware and near quantum computing level read/write/weighting. To clarify, when I say weighting, I'm saying the ability to place value through a neural network where every change is like poking a spider web, the whole thing has to adjust potentially. You pull on one connection (or string) in the network and all the other values have to adjust.

Assuming however; that we do have the current tech to build a self-aware consciencousness that wants to go all terminator on us, we can conclude a few things:

1. There are a limited number of data centers that this "AI" could be housed for base storage.
2. While the "AI" may have access to infinite amounts of data at varying speeds (the internet); it still has to poll that data to effect its neural net, which takes a lot of time, regardless of processors.
3. We would have to stipulate that there are no closed-systems for missile/rocket/rail gun/power/water...etc.

Like I said though, it will take a major break-through in computing technology. Doesn't mean we won't have the ability, just unlikely.

[Diogenes]

Cool ideas to be sure, but we lack the ability to create awareness.

Yet. If Moore's law continues to work, we get there by around 2040.

In fact, I think the combined HW of world or even some google data center _might_ have the raw HW power now (if you count in that brain might be ineffective dealing with all that biology stuff). The problem is lack of algorithm...

At least we know that awarness algorithm can be compressed to about 0,5GB of data (human DNA code).

I don't see this happening without a break-through like the integrated circuit. You're talking nano-scale development for just the hardware and near quantum computing level read/write/weighting. To clarify, when I say weighting, I'm saying the ability to place value through a neural network where every change is like poking a spider web, the whole thing has to adjust potentially. You pull on one connection (or string) in the network and all the other values have to adjust.

Assuming however; that we do have the current tech to build a self-aware consciencousness that wants to go all terminator on us, we can conclude a few things:

1. There are a limited number of data centers that this "AI" could be housed for base storage.
2. While the "AI" may have access to infinite amounts of data at varying speeds (the internet); it still has to poll that data to effect its neural net, which takes a lot of time, regardless of processors.
3. We would have to stipulate that there are no closed-systems for missile/rocket/rail gun/power/water...etc.

Like I said though, it will take a major break-through in computing technology. Doesn't mean we won't have the ability, just unlikely.

I think that as with everything else, we are not communicating properly. From my perspective it is axiomatic that machines will never be the decision makers in a skynet like system. There will always be a small cadre of Humans ruling from atop a mountain of servant machines, thereby forcing all other humans into subjugation.

I repeat, "SKYNET" will be run by Humans at the top. They will be dictators, and they will use the machines to force obedience on those of us outside of their clique.

My posts are to illustrate that the means to building machines to control the rest of us are slowly evolving, and when the technology is ripe, it will be used to stamp out dissent and force a "Pax Oligarchy" on dissidents.

There will be terminators, but they will have a human hand on their leash.

[ScottL]

Perhaps, but I think that's a rather extreme scenario and unlikely as well in my opinion. You still need the force behind the design, construction, and implementation at all times. We will let happen only what we're willing to let happen.

[Diogenes]

Perhaps, but I think that's a rather extreme scenario and unlikely as well in my opinion. You still need the force behind the design, construction, and implementation at all times. We will let happen only what we're willing to let happen.

And we are willing to let it happen because most of us cannot see it coming.


I take it that you are unfamiliar with this work?

[ScottL]

"1984," required reading freshmen year of high school.

1984 didn't have any robots, just cameras Funny you're citing a known Libertarian to make your point.

I understand sort of what you're getting at, but I disagree as to the inevitability of the result with advancements in technology. I don't believe we'll be enslaved any more than I believe we're going to build a technological utopia. We'll continue to consume it as though it were part of our life at varying rates as we always have. The alternative, living by candle light, is not appealing to me and likely never will be.

[williatw]

Not exactly on topic, but related in my opinion. You guys might find this enjoyable.

VIDEO: Home Invasion – A tale of Nanny State laws gone too far.






http://www.coiledsnake.com/2011/09/16/home-invasion/

The trend line now seems for the moment to be in the opposite direction. There is even talk of concealed carry in California. http://www.frontsight.com/CACCW/ One of the last three holdouts counting New York and Illinois. Most of us would probably agree Obama would do gun control if he could, but even with a democratically controlled house and senate which he had initially he didn't have the nuts to do much about it. If I had to guess, looking at Texas, wondering how long before many other states have "Stand your Ground" laws augmenting the castle doctrine type laws we have elsewhere. Or maybe even Texas style right to use deadly force to protect property. These things are happening with a pro-gun control prez..., imagine how it would take off with a pro gun rights president. Or even if Obama wins a 2nd term can't see him getting much done in area of gun control with the current Congress