I currently think Islam is not going to be dissuaded by that, at least for now.
It is a long term strategy. Which is why you hold them until the cultural artifacts destroy the premises of their culture. Best outcome: they destroy themselves.
Women's liberation and prawn are our secret weapons. The internet is our delivery system.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
kcdodd wrote:I think you have managed to exceed Godwin's law. If Diogenes even starts a thread, or enters a thread at all, it is guaranteed that he will compare everything and everyone he doesn't like to a Nazi. I think he is just deliberately trying to make the most retarded and inflammatory post possible.
The Nazis were evil. Other things which are evil tend to resemble them.
I currently think Islam is not going to be dissuaded by that, at least for now.
It is a long term strategy. Which is why you hold them until the cultural artifacts destroy the premises of their culture. Best outcome: they destroy themselves.
Women's liberation and prawn are our secret weapons. The internet is our delivery system.
This may actually be a viable solution. As I have said, I've pondered this question before, and the forces involved do seem to move in our direction.
However, I think the better solution is to make them prosperous. From what i've learned, there seems to be a direct correlation between prosperity and Liberalism. People can only be stupid when they can afford it.
I believe this is the unsung brilliance of Bush's plan. The thing that's keeping most Arab populations in poverty (and therefore unhappy) is the absence of the rule of Just and Fair law. If Iraq could be made into a law abiding state where poor Arabs could become rich and middle class Arabs, it would initiate a demand for "Whatever They're having" across the middle east.
THAT would eventually bring stability to that region and defuse the threat that Islamic extremists represent. Of course, the kinky a decadent usage of the Internet by Arabs works in this direction as well, but I think prosperity would work better.
What I find annoying is that NO ONE is addressing the central point;
Putting political agendas into unrelated subjects is exactly what the Nazis did!
Here are some more examples of Nazi (National Socialists) tampering with textbooks to push their political agenda.
Questions that appeared in two math textbooks used in German schools during the Nazi era:
1. The construction of a lunatic asylum costs 6 million RM. How many houses at 15,000 RM each could have been built for that amount?
2. To keep a mentally ill person costs approx. 4 RM per day, a cripple 5.50 RM, a criminal 3.50 RM. Many civil servants receive only 4 RM per day, white collar employees barely 3.50 RM, unskilled workers not even 2 RM per head for their families. (a) Illustrate these figures with a diagram. According to conservative estimates there are 300,000 mentally ill, epileptics, etc. in care. (b) How much do these people cost to keep in total, at a cost of 4 RM per head? (c) How many marriage loans at 1000 RM each … could be granted from this money?*
* Quoted in Nazism: A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts, 1919-1945, ed. by J. Noakes and G. Pridham. Vol. 1. Schocken Books, 1983, p. 439.
Diogenes wrote:What I find annoying is that NO ONE is addressing the central point;
Putting political agendas into unrelated subjects is exactly what the Nazis did!
Here are some more examples of Nazi (National Socialists) tampering with textbooks to push their political agenda.
Questions that appeared in two math textbooks used in German schools during the Nazi era:
1. The construction of a lunatic asylum costs 6 million RM. How many houses at 15,000 RM each could have been built for that amount?
2. To keep a mentally ill person costs approx. 4 RM per day, a cripple 5.50 RM, a criminal 3.50 RM. Many civil servants receive only 4 RM per day, white collar employees barely 3.50 RM, unskilled workers not even 2 RM per head for their families. (a) Illustrate these figures with a diagram. According to conservative estimates there are 300,000 mentally ill, epileptics, etc. in care. (b) How much do these people cost to keep in total, at a cost of 4 RM per head? (c) How many marriage loans at 1000 RM each … could be granted from this money?*
* Quoted in Nazism: A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts, 1919-1945, ed. by J. Noakes and G. Pridham. Vol. 1. Schocken Books, 1983, p. 439.
Diogenes wrote:What I find annoying is that NO ONE is addressing the central point;
Putting political agendas into unrelated subjects is exactly what the Nazis did!
Here are some more examples of Nazi (National Socialists) tampering with textbooks to push their political agenda.
Questions that appeared in two math textbooks used in German schools during the Nazi era:
1. The construction of a lunatic asylum costs 6 million RM. How many houses at 15,000 RM each could have been built for that amount?
2. To keep a mentally ill person costs approx. 4 RM per day, a cripple 5.50 RM, a criminal 3.50 RM. Many civil servants receive only 4 RM per day, white collar employees barely 3.50 RM, unskilled workers not even 2 RM per head for their families. (a) Illustrate these figures with a diagram. According to conservative estimates there are 300,000 mentally ill, epileptics, etc. in care. (b) How much do these people cost to keep in total, at a cost of 4 RM per head? (c) How many marriage loans at 1000 RM each … could be granted from this money?*
* Quoted in Nazism: A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts, 1919-1945, ed. by J. Noakes and G. Pridham. Vol. 1. Schocken Books, 1983, p. 439.
Well the Catholics and Nazis agreed on some things. That did not make the Catholics Nazis or the Nazis Catholics.
Of course instead of agitating about all this indoctrination in the public schools - a project championed by the socons of the day as INDOCTRINATION CENTERS (well doesn't it suck when it gets away from you) - why not do something about it?
VOUCHERS
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
So D you are telling me that Public Schools designed by socons as indoctrination centers is a bad thing when they don't indoctrinate your way?
I see your point. It has got to suck to be you. You set out to do good by telling people what to do and before you know it some one you don't even like is telling people what to do.
It would seem that the desire to tell people what to do is unquenchable. We are going to need some laws.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
" If a million babies are murdered through abortion every year, how many years will it take to reduce the nations population by 10% ? "
Insufficient information.You neglected to give the population, the birth rate and the death rate.
You also neglected the value of children raised by parents who didn't want them.
But I have a counter question. Since in the main abortion is an economic "crime" what will a 10% drop in income to the lowest quintile do to the abortion rate? What will a 10% rise in income do to the rate?
I wonder, do you recognize Action T4, obliquely referenced in Diogenes' original post, as a "crime?"
MSimon wrote:What do you do with the bottom of the curve in a knowledge economy where physical strength has no value (at least not enough to support a human let alone a family). It is the low end of the bell curve (mostly) that is doing the self elimination. Think of the million extra a year not out on the street agitating. What is the value of that?
Precisely 50% of the population will always be below average. Better questions - what sane society is not organized to account for this? Is society insane if organized only for the benefit of a small caste of "knowledge workers" (aka "creatives" aka ad infinitum)?
MSimon wrote:It is a long term strategy. Which is why you hold them until the cultural artifacts destroy the premises of their culture. Best outcome: they destroy themselves.
Women's liberation and prawn are our secret weapons. The internet is our delivery system.
This may actually be a viable solution. As I have said, I've pondered this question before, and the forces involved do seem to move in our direction.
No, its not.
The Islamic Resurgence since c.1979 is a formerly defeated region in the process of regaining vigor and self-confidence. The West meanwhile has been preoccupied with a century's worth of attempted suicide and cultural self-hatred. As to the violence out of the Muslim World, a freebooting Razzia has always been part of its cultural DNA. I.e. the violence is not indicative of decay.
As to women - women have self-enforced their inferior social position for all 5000 years of recorded civilized history. It is the mothers, aunts and grandmothers that hold little girls down to inflict FGM. Women are the conservative sex; do not look to them for revolutions.
Diogenes wrote:However, I think the better solution is to make them prosperous. From what i've learned, there seems to be a direct correlation between prosperity and Liberalism. People can only be stupid when they can afford it.
Economic determinism is a fool's distraction, regardless of whether you embrace the Left wing (Marxism) or Right wing (Barnettism) flavor of the creed.
In response to Diogenes, 1/20 to 1/10 of the children, or young adults, being "indoctrinated" by the "pro-gay propaganda" are gay. Schools are social institutions and there is no reason for those who are gay to not be considered a legitimate member of that society. It is people like you who see being gay as abnormal, and of course any inclusion of the homosexual members into "normal" teaching lessons will seem out of place and foreign to you. However, not only do you find those member abnormal, you wish to actively keep them from being considered normal by them and their peers. I am not only not sorry that someone has prepared lessons that speaks of people not a member of your straight Christian middle class ideal; I see these kinds of initiatives as a positive response to what has traditionally been, and sometimes tragic, process of growing up gay and having no role models, outlet, or positive feedback and having to adapt in a society not only not built for you, but which is filled with people actively trying to derail your life. Is it the only, or even the best, response in a school setting. Probably not. I know of support groups forming in high school to help those in it, but it is rare I think but just an example.
But you can just put a sock in it when you start to say it is evil and in line with the Nazis, who also took great pride in persecuting their own homosexuals, which, by the way, started by banning any books of gays or homosexuals.
Last edited by kcdodd on Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:06 pm, edited 8 times in total.
The right is no more honest than the left. The dishonesty is just about different things.
I agree with you about that one.
Well the Catholics and Nazis agreed on some things. That did not make the Catholics Nazis or the Nazis Catholics.
Also agreed, finally someone gets my point!
Insufficient information.You neglected to give the population, the birth rate and the death rate.
Agreed
Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life
I dont agree on thinking in classes. This is communist thinking. Think in genes and memes. That would be the more modern way. You will find different gene and meme groups mixed into different classes. Therefore the class- model is insufficient and will often lead to wrong results. This is one reason why communism and socialism do not work and why behaviourism does not work either. They are two sides of the same medal (Lamarckism and Behaviourism).