Was Trayvon high?

[Diogenes]

If Derschowitz is correct in his reading of Florida law than Zimmerman has a good chance, though in any case think Corey overcharged Zimmerman by going with 2nd degree murder instead of manslaughter. I believe the criminal investigator at the crime scene wanted Zimmerman charged, but with manslaughter rather than murder. Don't know what Corey's reasoning was. If the judge caves, and does not dismiss the charges on the grounds of self-defense, and it goes to a trial, it would be up to the jury. Jury can more easily be swayed by the emotional arguments of a clever prosecutor.

Corey is a political animal who was brought on to head off riots and deflect blame. If the case implodes but the blame can be laid at the feet of the judge on the case, she has done the job she was hired to do.

Exactly right.

[Diogenes]

Yes I remember that age. I was in college studying my ass off when near 18 ). Before that I was working in a grove keeping gnats out of my eyes and sweating in the hot sun. When I got home, I was either studying or cranking on the ice cream maker.

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages. Besides he wouldn't be cool working or studying. What a crock this victimization is.

Back to the issue, if he was just a kid why was he unsupervised, if he was not a kid, he was responsible. Six foot three inches is big enough to kill a man with his bare hands, and judging by the pictures and reported injuries of Zimmerman, Zimmerman barely escaped serious injury or death.

If Trayvon was not responsible then his parents were, which is it?

And of course you have no interest in the possibility that getting high was part of the problem?

[Diogenes]

Yes I remember that age. I was in college studying my ass off when near 18 ). Before that I was working in a grove keeping gnats out of my eyes and sweating in the hot sun. When I got home, I was either studying or cranking on the ice cream maker.

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages. Besides he wouldn't be cool working or studying. What a crock this victimization is.

Back to the issue, if he was just a kid why was he unsupervised, if he was not a kid, he was responsible. Six foot three inches is big enough to kill a man with his bare hands, and judging by the pictures and reported injuries of Zimmerman, Zimmerman barely escaped serious injury or death.

If Trayvon was not responsible then his parents were, which is it?

How is the responsibility transferred to Trayvon in this case? This is ridiculous. Have you considered the fact that this is a young man being followed and approached by an irritated, overly-aggressive neighborhood watch member? Zimmerman approached Trayvon by his own testimony and Trayvon didn't owe him any form of explanation. Matter of fact, he was in an unfamiliar place with an unfamiliar man aggressively following/approaching him, and if that were me, I'd be very nervous. Perhaps Trayvon was exercising the "Stand your ground" law when he felt threatened by this individual.

Putting the speculation aside, Zimmerman is the legal adult here who has been an adult for a few years. He showed zero respect to law enforcement by not heeding their request for him not to follow and a completely judgemental break down in approaching an unfamiliar figure in an aggressive manner. He deserves to rot for being an epic moron.

No he does not. He exercised poor judgement, but then so did Trayvon in the way he responded to it.

Everybody nowaydays is so full of themselves that they want to start Sh*t over nothing, and that's exactly what happened. Sh*t got started over a whole bunch of nothing.

I would suggest that being high does not encourage good judgement, and perhaps a sober person would have done things differently.

Zimmerman does not deserve to "rot" for following someone around who apparently became unreasonably aggressive without just provocation. Yes, Zimmerman was an annoying little pr*ck, but his lack of judgement was not excessive.

[Skipjack]

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages.

And conservatives would make sure that noone would want that job if they lowered minimum wages like they would like to.
Plus by lowering the wages, you have less purchase power and that will slow the economy.

[mvanwink5]

Diogenes, come out and say it. You are just one step away from it. The fault was chemicals, we need to get the UN or Michelle O. to give everyone a certified approved drug free menu. No more big sugar sodas for NYC, too dangerous!

[mvanwink5]

Skipjack, between you and Diogenes you could really set the world right. We'll put you in charge of wages and Diogenes in charge of the menu. Problem solved. Big Brother knows best.

[ladajo]

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages.

And conservatives would make sure that noone would want that job if they lowered minimum wages like they would like to.
Plus by lowering the wages, you have less purchase power and that will slow the economy.

Dude. For a smart guy you are economically clueless. And I really do think you are smart.

[Skipjack]

Dude. For a smart guy you are economically clueless. And I really do think you are smart.

Uhm, thanks, I guess
Let me clarify. I am not asking for higher minimum wages.
I am asking for balance and consensus instead of extremes (my snarky comment was simply meant to counter the IMHO rather extreme notion that minimum wage is preventing people from having jobs).
At least those that are earning minimum wage are actually working for it and thus contributing to society. I am much more concerned about those that dont like the thought of working for such low money (and those will be more with a lower minimum wage) and rather make their money in other ways... ways that probably cost society a lot more than a few cents increase of minimum wage.

[ScottL]

Yes I remember that age. I was in college studying my ass off when near 18 ). Before that I was working in a grove keeping gnats out of my eyes and sweating in the hot sun. When I got home, I was either studying or cranking on the ice cream maker.

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages. Besides he wouldn't be cool working or studying. What a crock this victimization is.

Back to the issue, if he was just a kid why was he unsupervised, if he was not a kid, he was responsible. Six foot three inches is big enough to kill a man with his bare hands, and judging by the pictures and reported injuries of Zimmerman, Zimmerman barely escaped serious injury or death.

If Trayvon was not responsible then his parents were, which is it?

How is the responsibility transferred to Trayvon in this case? This is ridiculous. Have you considered the fact that this is a young man being followed and approached by an irritated, overly-aggressive neighborhood watch member? Zimmerman approached Trayvon by his own testimony and Trayvon didn't owe him any form of explanation. Matter of fact, he was in an unfamiliar place with an unfamiliar man aggressively following/approaching him, and if that were me, I'd be very nervous. Perhaps Trayvon was exercising the "Stand your ground" law when he felt threatened by this individual.

Putting the speculation aside, Zimmerman is the legal adult here who has been an adult for a few years. He showed zero respect to law enforcement by not heeding their request for him not to follow and a completely judgemental break down in approaching an unfamiliar figure in an aggressive manner. He deserves to rot for being an epic moron.

No he does not. He exercised poor judgement, but then so did Trayvon in the way he responded to it.

Everybody nowaydays is so full of themselves that they want to start Sh*t over nothing, and that's exactly what happened. Sh*t got started over a whole bunch of nothing.

I would suggest that being high does not encourage good judgement, and perhaps a sober person would have done things differently.

Zimmerman does not deserve to "rot" for following someone around who apparently became unreasonably aggressive without just provocation. Yes, Zimmerman was an annoying little pr*ck, but his lack of judgement was not excessive.

You are speculating that he was high and that he was the aggressor, neither of which fits the evidence as given so far. If we're going to speculate all day, perhaps Zimmerman scared Trayvon, who began to run away, but was grabbed by Zimmerman, promptly leading to Trayvon fighting for his presumed life as he's the one being attacked. See I can play this game too.

As the adult in the situation, Zimmerman should be held responsible for the results, pure and simple. He aggressively approached the young man, he provoked a fight or flight response, he did so knowing this would happen and knowing he had a gun. Zimmerman was a man looking for a fight, who was unjustified in his anger towards a youth walking home. He assumed Trayvon to be one of the thugs and when police were notified, still decided to take matters into his own hands. This is criminal negligence at a minimum.

[mvanwink5]

I agree with Ladajo on both counts. The problem is no one or no committee is smart enough, then there is all the other stuff and you end up with, namely smarmy politicians, lobbyist, cronies, high handed red taped, napoleonic bureaucrats and commissars / czars doing what is best for us and really mucking it up. Then you can't get rid of them, and get barraged with TV attack ads and discussions of birth certificates. In the end everyone is broke and street gangs roam freely financed by boot leg super size large cokes.
Best regards

[mvanwink5]

Scott, sounds like you have it all figured out, good for you.

[ScottL]

Scott, sounds like you have it all figured out, good for you.

Figured out, no.....but flying by ones teeth can be fun at times. If Trayvon were a 12 year old kid, we'd blame Zimmerman. If he were a 90 year old man we'd blame Zimmerman. If he wasn't he, but she, we'd blame Zimmerman. I've avoided the race issue completely at this point in all my speculation, so I don't see an issue.

The bottom line is the responsible person in the situation (the adult) made a horrendous decision that lead to the death of a non-adult. Very wise advice was even given to Zimmerman by way of the 911 dispatch. Heck, had he waited 5 minutes, all of this would've been avoided. His negligence and poor decision making ability as an adult resulted in a death.

I don't think it can be denied at this point Zimmeran started this unfortunate event and as such should be tried for negligence resulting in death. Trayvon wasn't stalking Zimmerman like prey, but Zimmerman was definitely on the hunt.

[Jccarlton]

Walter Williams On the minimum wage and education:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1r-r6iLBEI

[Jccarlton]

Scott, sounds like you have it all figured out, good for you.

Figured out, no.....but flying by ones teeth can be fun at times. If Trayvon were a 12 year old kid, we'd blame Zimmerman. If he were a 90 year old man we'd blame Zimmerman. If he wasn't he, but she, we'd blame Zimmerman. I've avoided the race issue completely at this point in all my speculation, so I don't see an issue.

The bottom line is the responsible person in the situation (the adult) made a horrendous decision that lead to the death of a non-adult. Very wise advice was even given to Zimmerman by way of the 911 dispatch. Heck, had he waited 5 minutes, all of this would've been avoided. His negligence and poor decision making ability as an adult resulted in a death.

I don't think it can be denied at this point Zimmeran started this unfortunate event and as such should be tried for negligence resulting in death. Trayvon wasn't stalking Zimmerman like prey, but Zimmerman was definitely on the hunt.

What makes it so certain that Zimmerman was stalking Martin? I think it was the other way around. As things come out I think it more than likely that Trayvon was part of the gang of kids that had been burglarizing houses and generally terrorizing the neighborhood. I think the watch captain Zimmerman was a thorn in the gang's side, patrolling around the neighborhood. I can understand why the gang would be upset about him, especially after one of the gang members was caught and sent to jail. A few puffs with his buddies and Trayvon was all set to beat on the pest when he saw him.

[mvanwink5]

Scott, I could never see myself, if I was 6'3," or otherwise, pounding someone else's head in the ground, beating his face with my fist, breaking the person's nose, blacking his eyes, and him never landing a punch, and this is based on reported forensics. However you twist this into imagining this young man into a person who was defending himself is beyond me. This "story" about this kid going out for skittles has been made up by the media. It stinks. Be that as it may, it sounds like there will be a trial and Zimmerman sounds like he has a good defense lawyer. We will just have to see what happens at the trial.

To me it looks like one of those lynch mob wild west TV shows where some one whips a mob up into a frenzy to go string someone up, and not waste time sorting things out. It really smells to high heaven. And, I really take a dislike to this portrayal of a 6'3" man as a 10 year old kid every time I see a picture of Martin on the news.

Your story of what happened matches the way the news got it hook line and sinker, not the forensics as shown, but maybe there is more forensics...I trust forensics, I take witness statements with a block of salt. I worked 30 years in a power plant and I know from experience that what people remember, or report as memory, can be completely backwards, and it takes in depth investigation to figure out what happened, what to repair, or make required modifications.

But maybe you have a better read on what happened.