Talk-Polywell.org

Okay, so now take the questions in this thread (which I believe are not original thoughts) and toss in questions about what is fringe science, pseudoscience, protoscience?etc?
Folks seam to get hot about these questions. Just check out the archive discussion on the Polywell Wikipeda page. It appears that a vote of ten or so folks determined weather or not the Polywell page would be labeled as fringe-science or science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Polywell/Archive_1

It also appears that Dr. Carlson was in on a debate about Homeopathy and pseudoscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Art_Carlson

Which brings on questions of who is in the right place to make these kinds of decisions and just how many people is an appropriate number for consensus?
All of these efforts would be moot if everyone could agree on what science is and what it is not.
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Gy6 engine

Sorry I think I miss posted. Aaaanywho.
So now take the questions in this thread (which I believe are not original thoughts) and toss in questions about what is fringe science, pseudoscience, protoscience?etc?
Folks seam to get hot about these questions. Just check out the archive discussion on the Polywell Wikipeda page. It appears that a vote of ten or so folks determined weather or not the Polywell page would be labeled as fringe-science or science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Polywell/Archive_1

It also appears that Dr. Carlson was in on a debate about Homeopathy and pseudoscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Art_Carlson

Which brings on questions of who is in the right place to make these kinds of decisions and just how many people is an appropriate number for consensus?
All of these efforts would be moot if everyone could agree on what science is and what it is not.
________
Teen vid

One of the first things that science depends on is that there are no miracles.

Which is why "whatever Allah wills" is not conducive to science.

If you want have some fun, do a web search on "Steorn" and "Orbo". You will find a lot of pseudo-science. It boils down to the difference between testable and believable. That can be a fine line, because we have to believe our tests. But sometimes, it's pretty darn obvious that belief is all there is and nothing was tested.

MSimon wrote:One of the first things that science depends on is that there are no miracles.

Wrong. Modern western science as we know it started during the Middle Ages, and was carried forward by men like Albertus Magnus who trusted God and knew He had a plan. Natural philosophy was simply an attempt to find out what the "nature" part of the plan was by observation - "He has ordered all things by measure and number and weight."

Miracles aren't random betrayals of the laws of nature. They're "special exceptions" to the rules, made for good reasons. You will NEVER observe a miracle in the lab; God wouldn't mess with us like that.

Which is why "whatever Allah wills" is not conducive to science.

Muslims believe that reason is just a human thing and that Allah isn't bound by it. You're entirely correct - that's no more conducive to science than belief in some capricious pagan pantheon...

Hey, this is the "General" section... and I couldn't leave a statement like that unchallenged...

93143 wrote: Miracles aren't random betrayals of the laws of nature. They're "special exceptions" to the rules, made for good reasons. You will NEVER observe a miracle in the lab; God wouldn't mess with us like that.

I guess it depends on how you define "miracle". If you line things up exactly right, magic happens. Sometimes that "exactly right" is one part in 100, sometimes it's 1 part in 10^8. Knowing how to get things lined up right is the work of a magician, or scientist.

I would say the "first place" you see a miracle is in the lab. Repeating it a few billion times is then "just engineering". Wasn't Clarke who said any technology advanced enough appears as magic to those who don't understand it? For the vast majority of people on this planet, most technology is a miracle.

I hope the Polywell concept is sufficiently testable with WB-7 that the Navy decides to move forward. Any sufficiently falsifiable, testable and repeatable miracle is indistinguishable from science.

drmike wrote:I guess it depends on how you define "miracle".

I guess it does...

I define miracle in a way most conducive to get every one to agree with me.

It is a wonder I'm not running for President. :-)

I'd have to agree that getting everyone to agree to anything would be a miracle!!