Latest drug addict loons.

[williatw]

What is the differnec between a jack booted thug that steps on your head verses a church sanctioned bully that steps on your soul with threats of purgatory?

One has the force of law behind his jackboots backed up by firearms, real assault weapons, the other can only hector people about their sinful ways.

The point here is that we do not raise our children well as a society to cope with failure or stress. We teach them to seek the easy way out. Drug use is part of that culture.

And throwing hundreds of thousands of mostly minority youth in jail will teach values to those middle class white kids not being put in jail?

Everyone is a winner. If you don't feel like a winner then it is okay to medicate for it. Bad shit and good shit happens in life. You have to deal with either.

How is distaste for this supposed societal/parental coddling remotely a justification for the insanely high cost (monetary and societal) for the WOD?

[GIThruster]

Core Christians beleive in penance and suffering for the sins of man.

"Penance"?! thought that was voluntary suffering one undertook willingly to make up for ones sins to better the soul...

Actually you're both wrong. Penance is a sectarian, specifically Roman Catholic doctrine, created during the dark ages that teaches men can pay for their own sins. This is completely at odds with the Christian teaching that Christ pays for our sins. While I'm not a Roman basher and consider them brethren, it is worth noting that the entire Reformation came as result of this disgusting doctrine of penance and indulgences for sin. The church of Rome was teaching you can pay cash money to buy a candle to ease someone else's suffering in purgatory (also not a Christian doctrine) and Martin Luther decided that was just the last straw. To this day, "evangelical Catholics" discard the doctrines of purgatory and limbo in favor of the historic Christian doctrine that sins are not paid for by the suffering of God's people, but by Christ's death on the cross.

So just saying, neither of you had this correct. This is the standard stuff of any Western Civ class.

[kurt9]

I'm not sure what the definition of "sin" is. It does not seem to anything that reasonable people would classify as criminal or anti-social behavior.

On a related matter, I have never understood the appeal of a world-view that does not allow people to live their own lives, minding their own business, and censoring them only if they cause harm to others.

[GIThruster]

Well I'm sure I don't want to get into a religious discussion, but to answer your question, in the original language "sin" is the measure by which an arrow misses the center of a bullseye. It is the distance between righteousness and whatever you got. All Christian theologies throughout all history have always taught that all people are sinners needing forgiveness for their sin since God is righteous, rather than the noxious doctrine that sin is paid for by buying candles from a sick church, etc.

And though I see the appeal of your preference, I note that it is completely anthropocentric and not really the stuff real religion is made of. If you're gonna make something up, make it manly like the Norse mythology.

[ladajo]

Saint Faustina and others might disagree with you GIT.

No matter how you cut it, penance and suffering IS part and parcel with Core Christians.

You may want to give a read to Ron K. Rittgers' part in "A New History of Penace" Edited by Abigail Firey. He delves directly into Martin Luther's take on penance and suffering.

[kurt9]

Well I'm sure I don't want to get into a religious discussion, but to answer your question, in the original language "sin" is the measure by which an arrow misses the center of a bullseye. It is the distance between righteousness and whatever you got. All Christian theologies throughout all history have always taught that all people are sinners needing forgiveness for their sin since God is righteous, rather than the noxious doctrine that sin is paid for by buying candles from a sick church, etc.

And though I see the appeal of your preference, I note that it is completely anthropocentric and not really the stuff real religion is made of. If you're gonna make something up, make it manly like the Norse mythology.

So let me get this straight. Say I'm someone who has always minded my own business and has never caused anyone any harm. I choose not to join your religion (or any other for that matter). Could I still be considered guilty of the crime of "sin"? Given that "sin" is a religious term, it seems to me that the concept is not applicable to those who do not join the religion.

I'm not sure what you mean by my comments being anthropocentric.

[williatw]

Core Christians beleive in penance and suffering for the sins of man.

"Penance"?! thought that was voluntary suffering one undertook willingly to make up for ones sins to better the soul...

Actually you're both wrong.

So just saying, neither of you had this correct. This is the standard stuff of any Western Civ class.

penance

n

1 voluntary self-punishment to atone for a sin, crime, etc.

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-d ... on/penance

Yeah...I was way off the mark alright, thanks for the correction GIT

[Diogenes]

it had to happen
http://content.time.com/time/video/play ... _0,00.html
a pot commercial

It will be interesting to see if Pot follows that logistic growth curve.


I suspect it will, but I think it will level off earlier because it doesn't engender the same addiction levels as would opiates or cocainoids.


And the Libertarians think the stuff won't get pushed. Sheesh.

[Diogenes]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... /10219119/

Columbia University researchers performing a toxicology examination of nearly 24,000 driving fatalities concluded that marijuana contributed to 12% of traffic deaths in 2010, tripled from a decade earlier.
...
A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration study found that 4% of drivers were high during the day and more than 6% at night, and that nighttime figure more than doubled on weekends.
Colorado has seen a spike in driving fatalities in which marijuana alone was involved, according to Insurance.com. The trend started in 2009 — the year medical marijuana dispensaries were effectively legalized at the state level.

Who says pot is harmless?

When people switch from alcohol to pot traffic fatalities go down. It is not a matter of harmless. It is a matter of better or worse.

People I know who smoke pot also drink a lot.

I don't think the operator is subtraction. I think the operator is addition.


We will get the same number of Drunk drivers PLUS a new number of stoned drivers.

[williatw]

it had to happen
http://content.time.com/time/video/play ... _0,00.html
a pot commercial

Or even better from your link:

This Week In Health: Is Marijuana the Next Diabetes Drug?


http://content.time.com/time/video/play ... 34,00.html

Criminal....criminal! this must be stopped...

[MSimon]

We will get the same number of Drunk drivers PLUS a new number of stoned drivers.

Reality doesn't bear out your prediction.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/w ... ic-deaths/

But like believers in AGW (it is a faith) reality can't shake your faith. How do I know that? I have posted that link frequently when the subject comes up and facts never change your mind. Legalization will have been in effect for one year in Colorado on 1 Jan. 2015. By about June of that year we will have some analysis of the numbers. My guess is that we will see the same thing as med pot states. (Colorado was a med pot state - so there may be no significant change). What causes the change? If you read the article it is people switching from alcohol to pot.

One thing is so obvious that it is already showing up:

According to data from the Denver Police Department, violent crime (including homicide, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault) fell by 6.9% in the first quarter of 2014, compared with the same period in 2013. Property crime (including burglary, larceny, auto theft, theft from motor vehicle and arson) dropped by 11.1%.

http://www.msnbc.com/all/does-marijuana ... crime-rate

I get that such a finding imperils police job security. But for everyone else it is good news.

Ronald Reagan used the quote: "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.

Evidently conservatives have the same problem.

[GIThruster]

So let me get this straight. Say I'm someone who has always minded my own business and has never caused anyone any harm.

Like I said, I really am not interested in a religious discussion especially with the Christian bashers we have in this forum. But to answer your question, it is a loaded question. All of classical theism--including Judaism, Christianity and Islam--all teach in all their authentic forms, that all people are sinners (with the exception of the Son of God, Jesus Christ). All "fall short of the glory of God". So the very premise you site does not exist as an option. If you believe there are sinless people, well then you're not going to believe they need forgiveness. So why ask the question?

And as I already explained, "sin" is not etymologically a religious term. It is an archery term that predates the Greek use in religion by many centuries.

I think what you don't get is the whole notion of "righteousness" as a pure standard none of us reach, and that is the basis for all doctrine on this subject.

Don't you people ever read your Bibles? "Your righteousness is as filthy rags" is pretty much the basics in theism, and those rags refer specifically to what women used to clean up during their menstrual period. No mucking about pretending there are righteous people.

[Diogenes]

Cop Killer was a Pothead

Miller’s notion of “Big Government” was a government that interfered with his marijuana smoking. A simple search of stories about his background revealed a series of confrontations with law enforcement over his drug habits.

Avlon somehow missed the numerous pro-marijuana groups on Miller’s Facebook page, including:

Marijuana Policy Project
Drug Policy Alliance
Coalition for Cannabis Policy Reform
Marijuanna (sic) fans
Legalize weed, outlaw corporate greed
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP)
Students for Sensible Drug Policy

Miller was a doper whose “anti-government” philosophy stemmed from his hatred of the police for arresting him for violating the drug laws. You don’t need to be a forensic scientist to figure this case out.

http://www.academia.org/cop-killer-was-a-pothead/

[MSimon]

Some drunk cop killers:

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=236309

http://aattp.org/drunk-armed-racists-sp ... cop-video/

https://www.vdare.com/posts/houston-dru ... -in-prison

Drunk cop does the shooting - claims "authority" http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=45154

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethleh ... itcho.html

http://billwarnermyblog.wordpress.com/2 ... -festival/

The above is proof we should ban alcohol, dentists, and cops.

[MSimon]

So let me get this straight. Say I'm someone who has always minded my own business and has never caused anyone any harm.

All of classical theism--including Judaism, Christianity and Islam--all teach in all their authentic forms, that all people are sinners (with the exception of the Son of God, Jesus Christ).

Uh. I'm kinda familiar with Judaism. It doesn't teach that. It is a Christian invention. In fact a pagan/Catholic invention. There were people in the movement before the Catholics took over that did not have that belief.

This doctrine has its origins in pagan religion, and was introduced to the Catholic Church by the second century Catholic writer Irenaeus. Augustine, who, before his conversion to Catholicism, was a Manichaean, later cemented it into Catholic dogma.

http://realtruth.org/articles/100607-007-religion.html

Glad to help.