Liberal view of Government.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:49 pm

In America the AGW belief is at around 130 million and dropping like a stone. (below 50% and falling fast).

I am not believing in AGW, but I am not fully convinced the other way yet either. My position is that we need more data, that we dont have at the moment. That makes me an agnostic, I guess.
I am sure there are many like me in Europe as well.
I do agree though, it is a bad thing what is going on in Europe in this regard. Oddly enough, despite all the bullshit that we have going on here, we do still live pretty well. I would say that the poorest here live a lot better than the poorest in the US.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:07 pm

True, but we have to thank your kind who imposed the fracking PC on us ever since WW2 for that!

Really? Imposed on you? Maybe for 10 or 20 years post war. And even then only on Germans.

It doesn't explain the French. Or the Brits.

The difficulty is one of culture. And the aristocracy who believes (despite votes) that they are still entitled to rule.

There is a lot to be said for the much derided and unsophisticated Cowboy Culture of America.

You may be amused by this 1946 cartoon.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4jwck ... shortfilms

The money line is about 3 minutes in.

"You can't fool me because I'm too stupid"

Or to paraphrase Orwell:

Some ideas are so ridiculous that only European sophisticates can believe in them.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:11 pm

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Freude! Freude!

Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,

Let us put the gloves back on and cease sniping. While I enjoy a good flame war as much as anyone, I don't see any serious disagreements amongst any of us. Let us even indulge in a bit of Liberal Dreaming that all men will become brothers. Who knows? Perhaps dreams can come true?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd-mp56aS2Y

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:16 pm

Really? Imposed on you? Maybe for 10 or 20 years post war. And even then only on Germans.

You have no idea! Absolutely no idea! Heck, some of our politicians got on the US watchlist because of that and that was just a few years ago...

Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,

Ahh, Ludwig van... Best composer ever.

Let us put the gloves back on and cease sniping.

I am willing to do so. I apollogize for my sudden outrage earlier. It was not my best showing.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:22 pm

While we're posting videos, I just ran across this one today. I thought it was pretty amusing, and I thought you guys might think so as well.

It's what American English sounds like to Foreigners. Strangely enough, it sounds like English to me too, even though it's just gibberish.

http://music.todaysbigthing.com/2009/11/03

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:44 pm

Skipjack wrote:
Really? Imposed on you? Maybe for 10 or 20 years post war. And even then only on Germans.
You have no idea! Absolutely no idea! Heck, some of our politicians got on the US watchlist because of that and that was just a few years ago...

Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Ahh, Ludwig van... Best composer ever.

Let us put the gloves back on and cease sniping.
I am willing to do so. I apollogize for my sudden outrage earlier. It was not my best showing.

Beethoven was a Genius and I have always loved his Ninth symphony. I also like Strauss and Mozart, (I used to play Turkish March, and the Blue Danube on the Piano. Also Bach, Chopin, Handel etc.) I love Wagner's "Ride of the Valkries" Verdi's Anvil Chorus, Offenbach's Can Can, Rossini's William Tell overture, and a whole host of Other Great European Composers. The following is one of my favorite Videos set to Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture.

My friends always freak out when I play it, but It always brings a smile to my face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXmkAQihHPs

In any case, I've got to go now. Dinner is ready, so I won't be back for awhile.

Later Dudes.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:09 pm

All awesome pieces by great master composers. Ahh, they just dont make music like that anymore these days.
1812 is Collenell Deckers favorire piece (anyone who ever watched the A- Team will know what I am talking about)

I like the ride of the Valkyries, but I prefer the ouvertures to Meistersaenger and Tannhaeuser. The ouverture to Rienzi also is quite nice.
Meistersaenger is among my favorite operas by Wagner and in general, since it is for a Wagner opera a nice aberration from his usual, rather depressing tragedies.

Of course one should not forget to mention Bach and Vivaldi and Pachelbel and Albinioni... Bach wrote some of the most breathtaking pieces of music ever.

Some of my favorite pieces of music was written by the brilliant russian Mussorgsky (night on the bare mountain and promenade from pictures of an exhibition).

alexjrgreen · Post by **alexjrgreen** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:52 pm

MSimon wrote:What Islamic country do we look toward for developments in Science and Technology?

Indonesia and Pakistan, the largest Muslim populations in the world, both have space programmes.

MSimon wrote:Japan has an IEC Fusion program that is vibrant and making significant contributions. Name an Islamic Country that has a fusion program of any kind.

India, with the third largest Muslim population in the world: Institute for Plasma Research.

TallDave · Post by **TallDave** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:34 pm

Diogenes wrote:
TallDave wrote:
Skipjack wrote: Where did all the US Intelligent Design believers come from?
It's called "freedom of religion." You guys had ovens for Jews. I don't think you're in position to criticize us on that one.

And we Americans massacred the Indians and Kept Slaves. Oh, wait... That was our ancestors! Maybe we modern Americans shouldn't be blamed for the Actions of our ancestors?

The 1800s? What do you think was happening in Europe at the time? It wasn't all peace and love.

In any case, the 1940s aren't some bygone age. Some of those people are still around today.

The Two most obvious and most serious missteps Paul Bremer made in Iraq were the announcement that No member of the Bath Party would be allowed to keep their Government jobs, and that the entire Iraqi Army would be disbanded.

The former is almost certainly true (deBaathification was overapplied), the latter simply acknowledged reality: the Shia conscripts had all gone home.

It is my opinion that the Methodology of World War II was greatly superior to the Ad Hoc schemes cooked up on the fly by Paul Bremer and George w. Bush.

OTOH, we didn't have to carpet bomb Baghdad or nuke Tikrit. If we had, the occupation would have been much easier, but the cost would have been horrifying.

"Light footprint" was a disaster, but try to imagine the reaction if we had sent in 500,000 troops and put them on every corner in 2003. It would have been called everything from imperial to racist. Of course, we now know it would have worked a lot better, but the conventional wisdom of the time was we needed to be gentle, hands-off conquerors.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:58 pm

I don't hold grudges. All is forgiven.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:03 pm

alexjrgreen wrote:
MSimon wrote:What Islamic country do we look toward for developments in Science and Technology?
Indonesia and Pakistan, the largest Muslim populations in the world, both have space programmes.

MSimon wrote:Japan has an IEC Fusion program that is vibrant and making significant contributions. Name an Islamic Country that has a fusion program of any kind.
India, with the third largest Muslim population in the world: Institute for Plasma Research.

I was unaware that the USA is buying technology from Indonesia or Pakistan. From what I can tell we get more technology from Taiwan and South Korea.

And India - it is a British country not a Muslim one. I'd consider that case more similar to the success of Muslims in America.

alexjrgreen · Post by **alexjrgreen** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:57 pm

MSimon wrote:I was unaware that the USA is buying technology from Indonesia or Pakistan.

From Indonesia: computer accessories, peripherals and parts; television receivers, VCR's and other video equipment.

From Pakistan: surgical instruments.

alexjrgreen · Post by **alexjrgreen** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:07 am

MSimon wrote:
alexjrgreen wrote:
MSimon wrote:Name an Islamic Country that has a fusion program of any kind.
India, with the third largest Muslim population in the world: Institute for Plasma Research.
And India - it is a British country not a Muslim one. I'd consider that case more similar to the success of Muslims in America.

Iran then: Iran Tokamak1 (IR-T1).

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:16 am

In any case, the 1940s aren't some bygone age. Some of those people are still around today.

Very few.
My father was born in the last days of the war (february), so he did not have anything to do with the war. My grandfather was a medical doctor and never fired a bullet in the entire war. He died many years ago at the age of 92. Someone who was 20 by 1945, so with barely anything to do during the war, would be almost 85 years by now. The commanders are all gone. Maybe a few lieutenants are still barely crawling arround, but in reality they never had anything to say. You are not going to darn an entire people because of a hand full of old people. And then, whether all the Germans and Austrians were that evil is disputable. I tend to believe differently.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:35 am

And India - it is a British country not a Muslim one.

Uhm, the britts have long left that country.
IIRC roughly 15% of the indian population are muslims.
Not a muslim country but a signifficant number, nevertheless.
Religion in general has always had an important part in india. Oh and the country was very left (almost communistic) for a long period too.
I dont quite see how they would be a British country. They are not quite a muslim one either though.