Media "Control" of the Elections?

[Diogenes]

Oh H3ll, he admits it.

As we mentioned, Obama wrote on the subject in Dreams. Here’s an excerpt:
“I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it.

And that he wasn't much of a student in High school.

“I will confess to you that I was kind of a goof off in high school as my mom reminded me,” Obama said. “I went to high school in Hawaii, so there’s a lot of opportunity to goof off because the weather is really good all the time. I did well in school, but I didn’t really apply myself. I did what I needed to, to get into college, and it came fairly easily to me, but I never worked as hard as I should have.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 75471.aspx


Yeah, i'm sure his grades were awesome.





Edit: added more pictures.

[Betruger]

if he WAS getting high, just how good could his school work be during this time period?

I've done a ton of partying and tons of retarded things. I was a precocious child. Skipped two grades, almost always at the top of classes, etc. Doesn't change the fact that I could get things done seriously when I decided to.

[Diogenes]

if he WAS getting high, just how good could his school work be during this time period?

I've done a ton of partying and tons of retarded things. I was a precocious child. Skipped two grades, almost always at the top of classes, etc. Doesn't change the fact that I could get things done seriously when I decided to.

Skipjack asserted that Obama's refusal to release his school records did not constitute proof that he got poor grades. He said it wasn't evidence. I thought perhaps he might regard these pictures of Obama in College as evidence.

Apparently not. I'm pretty sure he would likewise ignore the testimony of Obama's classmates, and even actual examples of Obama's work in college as not being evidence.
(this stuff actually IS available.)

How about it Skipjack? What kind of info other than the actual school records themselves might you regard as evidence?

[Skipjack]

You have no problem with journalists hiding information which is detrimental to a specific political affiliation?

No, I was not saying that. I just found it curious that the information surfaced when it did. I mean why now?

It is claimed that it is an ordinary cigarette, but he sure looks happy after smoking it.

I used to be a smoker (tabacco) and that stuff sure did relax me and sometimes also brought a little smile to my face. Heck, I still miss it at times.

According to my wife, Obama actually admitted to still smoking tabacco every now and then. I can understand why. It sure did help me deal with stress (and I am sure he has plenty of that).
I also want to point out, that he did not spend even one second thought on the whole "legalize marijuana" thingy that was going on the dems website during the election. If I remember correctly he laughed and then said "I dont think so". Now, that may not make Msimon happy, but it sure got my agreement.

So, having said that, there are plenty of goofy pictures of everyone during their early highschool and college years and again, if these are the worst pics there are of him, then he must be a holy man of some sorts. There are sure are some much, much worse pics of myself. I mean like really stuff that my parents would probably disown me for, if they saw it, gggg.
But that is what youth is. As long as you grow out of that phase, mature and move on, it is OK to be young and goofy for a couple of years of your life.
I would rather that than a president that thinks he needs to catch up on his missed wild years by messing arround with interns in the white house, if you get what I mean?

[Skipjack]

How about it Skipjack? What kind of info other than the actual school records themselves might you regard as evidence?

Show me the records. That is all I want to see. I want to see a classmate that wont talk shit about any celebrity, if it gets them into the headlines and their 5 minutes of fame. People are idiots like that.
Heck, if one of my classmates ever made it anywhere in politics, I would happily state their high school foolishness to any reporter that cares to ask
Ok, maybe not, but you get my point.

[Betruger]

Why is the high school quote damning? Lots of bright people I've known were the same. In fact many were nearly or textbook misfits because of stress from lack of outlet for their creative/leadership/etc impulses. Eccentrics.

[Diogenes]

Why is the high school quote damning? Lots of bright people I've known were the same. In fact many were nearly or textbook misfits because of stress from lack of outlet for their creative/leadership/etc impulses. Eccentrics.

Okay, fine. Lets flip this idea to the other foot. How about you tell me what would indicate a poor student? (Other than the records themselves which the Genius won't let anyone see.)

Admissions of Drug use, and Photos of what appear to be drug use don't move the needle. Testimony from classmates doesn't budge it. Examples of really piss poor writing by Obama aren't good enough.

Example below.

As an undergraduate at Occidental College, Obama had composed what he calls some “very bad poetry,” and he does not sell himself short.

In 1981, Occidental’s literary magazine published two of Obama’s poems—“Pop” and “Underground.” These poems are only a little sillier than the average undergraduate’s, but they show not a glint of promise. From “Underground”:

Under water grottos, caverns

Filled with apes

That eat figs.

Stepping on the figs

That the apes

Eat, they crunch.

The apes howl, bare

Their fangs, dance . . .

The Fact that he did nothing as editor of the Harvard legal review, and the fact that he did nothing as a State Senator and Nothing as a US Senator, are likewise not indicative of someone who's done nothing all his life, and been rewarded for it anyway.

How about that Nobel Prize? Wasn't that something? My God, the man can win a Nobel Prize for .... NOTHING!

There's a reason why the symbol for Obama is a big "O".

[Betruger]

You're surfing on your bias. You don't like the guy and it shows thru. Which I think is a mistake, you (general you) ought to be dispassionate.

There's a reason why the symbol for Obama is a big "O".

This is a passionate mantra.

A poor student is one thing. Einstein was a poor student.. Extreme example but shows the relation's not direct to what success you might have elsewhere or later. Drug use is only guaranteed problem if there's long term health consequences. Testimony from classmates is nowhere near imacculate evidence. Piss poor writing.. I dunno - Wasn't Churchill an abysmal athlete? What policy of a president depends on poetry? The connection's indirect at best.
Next, that someone moves up without having to earn it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't up to the job.

It's all reaching arguments. And I don't like the guy any more than you do. But then I don't like any of em. Not any more than I like public polarization on two parties, or general public apathy to political corruption, the how & why of civic duty, etc. Or the obsession with dirt digging. Uniquely focusing on negatives and not making the best of positives.

[Betruger]

You wanna take the guy down? Take down his policies, his actions on the job. That's what matters. Politicians are supposed to do their job behind the scenes. Not be beauty or popularity pageants. Pictures of the latest politician's private life are as extraneous as pics of Brad Pitt in the bathroom. Who cares? His acting on the screen is what matters. Same with politicians - unless the paparazzi pics are evidence of something political, it's just more tabloid chaff.

[JLawson]

if he WAS getting high, just how good could his school work be during this time period?

I've done a ton of partying and tons of retarded things. I was a precocious child. Skipped two grades, almost always at the top of classes, etc. Doesn't change the fact that I could get things done seriously when I decided to.

But if you were running for President, would YOU have qualms about releasing your transcripts so folks could judge your accomplishments by your grades?

As has been pointed out, that he won't release them is a pretty good indication he didn't do well at all.

Frankly, I think we were sold a load when the media refused to look at Obama as closely as they examined Palin and McCain. And we're all paying for it - in trillion-dollar chunks added to the national debt, and massively declining viewer and reader numbers for the 'traditional' media. If they'd been even remotely balanced, we'd have known a lot more about Obama's background than we did.

[Betruger]

Those are separate points:
Not releasing the transcripts is no guarantee either way. It could just be that he likes his privacy. I would. And I also wouldn't want what I'm doing now to be judged with the bias of past performance or mistakes. Let what I do now speak for itself.

We were sold a load and have been sold loads for a while now. The media's of mediocre quality. Biased and not critical enough, not the kind of catalyst for informed and well articulated and shrewd public debate that it ought to be. There's a lot of mockery of e.g. European's high brow cultivated habits, but that's the rich substrate that favors a powerful population. A multiplicator. Take a brawny wrestler, then take a skinny asian martial arts master. The optimal, most potent fighter is neither; it's the bulkiest mass that's taught martial arts. A vulgar analogy, but I think it gets the point across.

None of the last batch of politicians on either side were good enough. A genuinely informed and critical population would have called that and the media circus for what they were (and are).

[JLawson]

Those are separate points:
Not releasing the transcripts is no guarantee either way. It could just be that he likes his privacy. I would. And I also wouldn't want what I'm doing now to be judged with the bias of past performance or mistakes. Let what I do now speak for itself.

We were sold a load and have been sold loads for a while now. The media's of mediocre quality. Biased and not critical enough, not the kind of catalyst for informed and well articulated and shrewd public debate that it ought to be. There's a lot of mockery of e.g. European's high brow cultivated habits, but that's the rich substrate that favors a powerful population. A multiplicator. Take a brawny wrestler, then take a skinny asian martial arts master. The optimal, most potent fighter is neither; it's the bulkiest mass that's taught martial arts. A vulgar analogy, but I think it gets the point across.

None of the last batch of politicians on either side were good enough. A genuinely informed and critical population would have called that and the media circus for what they were (and are).

Fully agree with that last - but...

And I also wouldn't want what I'm doing now to be judged with the bias of past performance or mistakes.

In Obama's case, we had NOTHING from the media to judge his potential performance on. We had nothing as far as his record was concerned. If you dug, you found out about his helping manage the Annenburg Challenge - which spent a couple hundred million to improve test scores in Chicago schools. (No improvemnt was found.) You found out about his involvement with Grove Parc, and the terrible conditions there. This was a matter of record - and the media ignored it.

And we now pay for it. Lucky us!

His transcripts and school record would have given us SOME indication about what he thought important - but in the end we had a blank screen held up by the media that everyone projected their fantasies on.

Frankly, I'd rather have seen "Debbie Does Dallas" than "Obama does US".

[Betruger]

Yes but that's all because he got the nomination. People allowed this guy with barely any record, any history, to get in. What can you do when your fellow electors are so uncritical? That's the root of it. That's what we're paying for now.

Someone else I argued this with said something that just pissed me off at the time.. The media has zero responsibility to be fair. They're commercial entities. It's up to the consumer to demand quality from the news groups.

[MSimon]

if he WAS getting high, just how good could his school work be during this time period?

I've done a ton of partying and tons of retarded things. I was a precocious child. Skipped two grades, almost always at the top of classes, etc. Doesn't change the fact that I could get things done seriously when I decided to.

I used to go serious bar hopping with my friends and always had an electronics magazine with me. I was considered odd.

[Skipjack]

The Fact that he did nothing as editor of the Harvard legal review, and the fact that he did nothing as a State Senator and Nothing as a US Senator, are likewise not indicative of someone who's done nothing all his life, and been rewarded for it anyway.

Ok, here I have to agree with you to some extent. I have to admit that Obama has shown very little so far of anything. Ok, he has only been in office for one year, but still. The US is still in Iraq and there is no end in sight. The thread from terrorists still exists and there is no real progress towards a solution. The healthcare package is on ice. The only thing he did that is really worth mentioning is the new NASA policy, which I have to admit though is really good and has a lot of support from activists (e.g. Clark Lindsay) and the industry as well.
Oh and his election did positively affect the image of the US in the world. I know you guys dont really give a darn about that, but you should. Even a great nation like the US cant stand by itself all the time and the US is in decline, which means standing allone will only be harder.

I would totally believe that Obama is not a good writer. He is not great a speaker either. I mean, he starts every other sentence with "Yo". That may be appropriate for a rapper from LA, but not for the president of the US.
As I said, Obama would not have been my first choice, but the selection was not too great that time either, one has to say.
I mean McCain? Come on! He had never even written an email. How is he supposed to bring economics back on track in a world where a big chunk of the business is in electronics/computers? He also referred to a planetarium projector as an overhead projector, clearly demonstrating lack of knowledge on the matter. Stuff like that just made him seem inadequate.