Pope Jumps Into Politics and Science.

[GIThruster]

So the question is, can we out-last them until they succumb to our evil influence?

That's a good question. According to several Islamic sites, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the West. I can't vouch for their veracity especially since veracity is not a prized value in Islam. I would note however, that Europe is in serious trouble. They are much more culturally post christian than the US is, and therefore more susceptible to the PC generalizations that postmodern liberal culture creates--what Oz Guiness calls "The Dust of Death". Europe's recognition that in the post-industrial era, children are mouths to feed rather than hands to work, has dropped their birth rates very low, except in places like the Muslim demographic. Islam is taking control by force, without force. Hence why we see many parts of Paris where French law has no sway. This is pretty nutty, and an example of what this going along to get along will in the end get you.

There is no way to avoid the coming clash of culture. People need to be able to call things that are evil--evil. There is no other remedy to the growing challenge of Islam. It is a demonically inspired religion and should be called that.

[Tom Ligon]

Yeah, you'd like Joe Butta. That's his worry exactly.

The term "no-go zone" cropped up in the news over the last day or two. The idea is that there are parts of some European cities where the Muslim population is so great that the cops don't dare go there. Evidently Bobby Jindal used the term recently, causing some European leaders to "choke on their porridge." There's strong rebuttal coming from Europe.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... zones-why/

MSNBC had a guest on who criticized Jindal and said he was "scrubbing the brown off his skin," a clearly racist statement that now has the guest dis-invited.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/01/235439- ... rown-skin/

One could argue that there are places in some major American cities where the cops won't go due to gangs, and you'd get the same angry denial from the cops. Tho' I'd bet there are a few places they only go with backup.

But this is a thread about what the Pope said. And on your point about reproductive rates, from the headlines I believe the Pope said today that Catholics don't need to "breed like rabbits." Weeeellll ....

[GIThruster]

Yes well that's al interesting but is not really the issue. Didn't I see stuff a week or so ago that actually mapped out the areas in Paris, that are under Islamic law rather than french law? This is really happening. It's not by accident either. This was apparently done in the courts. The Muslim population apparently earned the right to their own legal system. I only caught a glimpse but I think they showed 21 parts of Paris that are under Sharia law.

[Tom Ligon]

I'm sure you did see stuff over the last week or so ... it has been going around. Fox apparently was reporting it but has backed down because there's no evidence of it. Apparently it is yet another urban myth.

If there were an effort to get such areas going, I can think of no action more effective at putting a stop to it than a bunch of Islamic terrorists killing cartoonists and shoppers in Paris. Ain't no place the police won't go now.

[paperburn1]

Partial myth in partial truth, there was a map going around were the radical Muslims were showing the areas of Paris that would be under Sharia law control. I also had a map for Germany I believe it was Berlin that they it offered the same idea. The Germans shut it down fast. The French I'm not sure what happened but I didn't think it had any legal traction as as soon as the appointed police from Muslim law started patrolling the French Paris police shut them down.

[paperburn1]

A 120-page research paper entitled "No-Go Zones in the French Republic: Myth or Reality?" documented dozens of French neighborhoods "where police and gendarmerie cannot enforce the Republican order or even enter without risking confrontation, projectiles, or even fatal shootings."

In October 2011, a 2,200-page report, "Banlieue de la République" (Suburbs of the Republic) found that Seine-Saint-Denis and other Parisian suburbs are becoming "separate Islamic societies" cut off from the French state and where Islamic Sharia law is rapidly displacing French civil law.

The report also showed how the problem is being exacerbated by radical Muslim preachers who are promoting the social marginalization of Muslim immigrants in order to create a parallel Muslim society in France that is ruled by Sharia law.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/ ... o-go-zones

[paperburn1]

Look at the three minute mark of this video, clearly its a nogo zone. my french is poor but they clearly wanted them gone.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6qf97 ... rajme_news

[Tom Ligon]

This talk of no-go zones reminds me of an apartment complex in Washington DC, Mayfair Mansions. The place was a mess until a group of young men in suits and bow ties moved in and did what the cops had not. These were Muslims, followers of Louis Farrakhan. Yeah, that guy.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/24/us/mu ... trade.html

How did that turn out? I have not heard of this crew for years. Mayfair Mansions was back in the news a week or so back. Evidently it is as bad as ever. Nobody spoke much of imposed Sharia back then but I expect it was Farrakhan's intent, but it does not seem to have stuck.

Was it a no-go zone? My company got a contract to analyze paint in that complex for lead, ahead of a renovation, back in the 1980s. We sent a young engineer and an assistant in to collect the paint samples. Both were white, and the young engineer was the whitest white boy you ever saw ... red hair and freckles. They had no problem with the residents. At one point the management had no keys for an abandoned unit, and told them to just break down the door. The residents asked if our two guys were cops. They said "No", and the residents just shrugged and said "OK."

There was no lead in the original paint except for a known undercoating on the door frames (hence, OK to break down the doors which would be replaced anyway). A few units had been repainted by residents and had some lead. There were sometimes small holes found in the walls with lead around them.

[mvanwink5]

Called bait and switch. To see the final result look at Muslim countries, complete loss of religious freedom and freedom of speech. Scholarly arguments don't trump reality, and small, single tree anecdotes don't counter whole forests.

Progressive neocons though are secretly envious of the Muslim's methods of enforcing Sharia ethics.

[GIThruster]

That Gatestone piece is shocking.

". . .multiculturalism and the reign of politically correct speech is destroying the country" This is going to start happeing here in the US too, unless people put a stop to it.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/ ... o-go-zones

And yeah, it's referring directly to statements made by Fox news that were rebuffed by the French, and is arguing that the French are participating in this rebuffing specifically because they are in denial about the shabby condition of their republic.

I want to focus though on the distinction between a "no go zone" that concerns mainly police, fire and ambulance functions (and private delivery functions--an inability to order a pizza), and court functions. Are these Muslim communities actually holding courts, sentencing people and carrying out their own justice system? That seems far more important an issue than if there are places the police won't usually go because the Muslim youth are so dangerous.

We are headed back into conditions that have not existed since the Crusades, folks. Europe put up with Islamic bullshit for centuries before they got pissed off enough to go stomp some Muslim butt. We're gonna see it again. Only this time, some of them have nuclear weapons.

And I would just note to you, as an American who is proud of the tradition we have always had to champion freedom, I am appalled that in places like France, they have let slip their freedom to this diseased ideology. Our men and women sweat and bled out in places like Normandy, to protect not only American freedom, but that enjoyed in France, and the French have no right to sacrifice it out of laziness, nor fear, nor for any other reason.

[Tom Ligon]

Regarding the French Republic being in shabby condition, other than a couple of years when Napoleon was in charge, or a couple of years when Paris was undergoing urban renewal under Napoleon III, and maybe a few months around the time Eiffel built his tower for a world fair, I'm trying to remember when it was not. That, alas, is their normal state of affairs.

Regarding American love of freedom, in my lifetime the Klan has gone from an accepted participant in the power structure of some southern states to a pariah that dares not show its face. And do remember that they couched their racism as a religious cause ... they were more anti-Jewish than anti-Black. I recall, when I was a kid, they planned to come into Virginia to demonstrate while the State Legislature was in session. By noon that day the Senate and House of Delegates had both passed a law against cross burning, unanimously, and it was signed into law by the Governor. Proud moment for Virginia, telling that particular bunch of terrorists to Go Away.

The lesson in this is to really examine who we are, what we value, and to rise to meet those lofty ideals. And to show the world how it is done. There is always work to be done, but I'm pretty proud of where we are now. We do need to stand our ground, to find a way to let people worship as they please without bowing to their belief that we must worship as THEY please. I'm quite confident we will.

We are the Borg. All cultures will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. America's freedom is just too desirable. Religious fanatics who think they can scare us into submission will not succeed. They will try, but in the long term they've got nothing to offer but myth.

[paperburn1]

Having traveled quite extensively around the world and have seen Muslim culture on both sides the globe find it quite ironic that the most abuse part of Muslim population is the most ignored part when any argument about Muslim culture comes up. Almost all Muslim women can only hold the hope of being a second-class citizen at best. And in every extreme Muslim culture they can only hold hope of being a slave at best. We get to see moderate Muslims and they tend to have acceptable life but no matter which Muslim culture you look at the female was always lesser no matter what roll she held in the household: until the Muslim culture can promote equality and women's self as their own patrons is something that needs to be avoided. Another view I found was predominant was even though there were moderate Muslims the condemnation of the extreme Muslim was very small. It was accepted fact of life that they existed and almost necessary for the continuation of the culture.

[Tom Ligon]

The conspicuous exception to that, and I suspect it has something to do with not being particularly observant, is Iranian women in the US.

Whatever the complaints against the Shah, he was the best thing that ever happened to women in Iran, and a priority of the clerics there was to undo what he did to liberate women. One presumes that Iranian women in the US know they've got it good, and are here and not there for good reason.

I've known several (I think I have four in my LinkedIn connections). You'll never see one in a veil, they are sociable and very out-going, ambitious, and consistently highly intelligent. They are also usually knockouts, some of the best looking women you'll find anywhere. No wonder their men try to control them.

Iranians generally are culturally very different from Arabs. They don't like Arabs much. Iranians think of themselves as Persians and are extremely proud of their long history. They have their own new year, on the spring equinox, called Nowruz (the Baha'i share this new year). It is actually a Zoroastrian celebration, and the Muslim clerics have been trying to stop them for celebrating it back to when the Arabs first invaded, with no luck. Iran sided with the Axis during WWII, influenced by antisemitism. Both Arabs and Jews are Semitic, but Persians are Aryan, so Hitler was able to woo them with that, even though he really did not accept them as part of his master race.

The Arabs, on the other hand, have always considered Persians to be rather naughty. If you look at the 1001 Arabian Nights tales, when there is an exotic far-away land where people behave immorally, it is usually Persia.

Part of the problem with Muslim views of women are that they consider women to be inherently wicked, and believe that, unless strictly controlled, they will almost inevitably go to Hell, whereas they think most Muslim men will go to Paradise. Most westerners today would say women are more likely to be good than men are, and would not consider a place with almost no women to be Paradise. Muslim women are second class, but outrank demis (non-Muslims).

[Betruger]

until the Muslim culture can promote equality and women's self as their own patrons is something that needs to be avoided.

Injustice is wrong, no matter how small the injustice. Western culture is not innocent of misogyny.

And don't get me wrong, I generally (almost totally) disapprove of Islam. Even if I respect it.. somehow.. as far as its usefulness as a spiritual/existential crutch. That's a separate issue. It's just like activists for gay rights and women rights or christian rights, or.... There is no working for one particular group's justice without working for all humans' justice, unless you consider one subset as less deserving of justice.

I doubt anyone here actually disagrees with this. Yet it still sounds wrong, every time I see that argument: that Islam is unfair to women. That's not really a good comparative basis for the Western world, not when the Western world is still not actually treating women fairly. Because when you get down to it, any systematic injustice is indefensible, no matter how small. Or at least not as while still as large as the "small" injustice that women are subject to in the West.

[GIThruster]

. . .the most ignored part when any argument about Muslim culture comes up. Almost all Muslim women can only hold the hope of being a second-class citizen at best. And in every extreme Muslim culture they can only hold hope of being a slave at best.

Modern Evangelicals in support of the second war in Iraq did justify the war after the WMD's were not found, on grounds that 24 million women had been liberated. Whatever the number (that seems high), we ought to think in those terms much more often.