Well the Cato institute is not really a credible source. After all, they have a political motivation as their background.
I always want to hold against the claim by the US that more guns mean less crime, that we have less guns here and waaaay less crime than the US has, especially violent crime.
And you guys thought *I* was nuts.
Where there are no guns around because people just are not interested in owning guns, then yes homicide tends to be low. Gun control laws don't work because they only disarm the law abidding, criminals just ignore the laws. People in Europe for the most part are just not that interested in owning guns never have been(at least compared to America), ownership rates were/are probably much lower than the US even before guns were banned. If everybody in the US including criminals were just not interested in owning guns then maybe murder would be a lot lower. Does not show the effectiveness of gun control laws, just the effect of no guns around not the same thing. In a culture where alcohol comsumption is low because people just don't drink, alcoholism rates are doubtlessly low. Does not mean prohibition works. it may actually increase alcohol consumption. Lott studied homicide rates in England vs the US. When there were no restrictions on buying/carrying guns in England in the early 1900's murder in London was still only a fraction of the homicide rate in New York city. He couldn't find any positive benefit on crime in England as they increasingly banned guns. After they virtually banned hand guns after a mass shooting in 1997, for several years afterward homicide actually spiked upward, and finally went back down.Skipjack wrote:Well the Cato institute is not really a credible source. After all, they have a political motivation as their background.
I always want to hold against the claim by the US that more guns mean less crime, that we have less guns here and waaaay less crime than the US has, especially violent crime.
Guns don't make violence on others, people make violence on others. It is a major fallacy to equate the tool to the user in intent and use.
Hammers are fantastic for driving nails, smashing matchbox cars, breaking glass, cracking skulls, aligning blocks, blah blah blah. The key point is it is not the hammer that decides how it gets used.
Tens of thousands of years of history for human kind dictates that man will find a weapon and use it when he so desires. Man does not feel more or less inclined to choose use of a weapon against another based on weapon availibility. He chooses to do so based on his desire to make violence.
I think you are off base, and lacking review of many studies which argue against your position. Most studies indicate that weapon availibility does not determine inclinations for violence. And in fact, a number indicate that equal availibility of weapons does in fact reduce inclinations of violence due to fear of retribution.
Criminals and control freaks want guns and weapons to be denied to the common man. It provides a fertile ground to intimidate and exploit.
Hammers are fantastic for driving nails, smashing matchbox cars, breaking glass, cracking skulls, aligning blocks, blah blah blah. The key point is it is not the hammer that decides how it gets used.
Tens of thousands of years of history for human kind dictates that man will find a weapon and use it when he so desires. Man does not feel more or less inclined to choose use of a weapon against another based on weapon availibility. He chooses to do so based on his desire to make violence.
I think you are off base, and lacking review of many studies which argue against your position. Most studies indicate that weapon availibility does not determine inclinations for violence. And in fact, a number indicate that equal availibility of weapons does in fact reduce inclinations of violence due to fear of retribution.
Criminals and control freaks want guns and weapons to be denied to the common man. It provides a fertile ground to intimidate and exploit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
The most obvious general cause of homicides in America is Drug Prohibition. Americans are fine with that. Americans feel the deaths are worth it to make illegal drugs easier for kids to access than beer.
I'd like to see the drugs on an equal footing with beer. But that does not seem to be a popular position.
I'd like to see the drugs on an equal footing with beer. But that does not seem to be a popular position.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I am going to have to talk to my wife about it first. I'll let you know how it goes.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
On first take, liverphilia, with the proper awarness to procedure and infection control process, should be just fine. I guess the issue would be more in the informed consent of the liver's residence.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
MSimon wrote:Let me also note that no one but me has condemned sex with liver.
Doesn't anyone else wish to see this vile practice outlawed?
Yeah yeah, your "sex with liver" joke doesn't even make sense. You obviously ignored my response to it. (Which was ACTUALLY funny.)
On a different note.
Teenage girl dies after inhaling helium at party
EAGLE POINT, Ore. (AP) — Last weekend, 14-year-old Ashley Long told her parents she was going to a slumber party. But instead of spending the night watching videos and eating popcorn two blocks away, she piled into a car with a bunch of her friends and rode to a condo in Medford, Ore., where police say the big sister of one of her friends was throwing a party with booze and marijuana.
After drinking on the drive, and downing more drinks in the condo, it came time for Ashley to take her turn on a tank of helium that everyone else was inhaling to make their voices sound funny.
http://news.yahoo.com/teenage-girl-dies ... 18777.html
Injury? What Injury? Drugs didn't cause an injury! It was everything EXCEPT the drugs!
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
I thought this was a good editorial.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/23/opini ... ?hpt=hp_c3I'm a recovering drug addict and alcoholic who was spared from a life of misery, incarceration and death. I've been spared from the life of self-centeredness that led me to care very little about others and only about myself. I've been spared from the countless fears of inadequacy, failure, success, intimacy and anything else that threatened my well-guarded defenses. I've been spared a life of darkness and shown a path into the light.
We don't yet know why Whitney died, but we know she struggled with addiction. It's a pity that now, Whitney will not have the option I had.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
I obviously agree that drug use is one of the world's greatest evils, perhaps the single worst, far worse than war, disease and famine since it destroys the lives of multitudes and could so easily be avoided.
However, this bit with the helium can't be blamed on drugs. The kid was at a party where she played with a helium tank, and most people have no idea that this can be dangerous. This is a tragic accident--no more. She could easily have died the same way at a 10 year-old's birthday party.
However, this bit with the helium can't be blamed on drugs. The kid was at a party where she played with a helium tank, and most people have no idea that this can be dangerous. This is a tragic accident--no more. She could easily have died the same way at a 10 year-old's birthday party.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
GIThruster wrote:I obviously agree that drug use is one of the world's greatest evils, perhaps the single worst, far worse than war, disease and famine since it destroys the lives of multitudes and could so easily be avoided.
However, this bit with the helium can't be blamed on drugs. The kid was at a party where she played with a helium tank, and most people have no idea that this can be dangerous. This is a tragic accident--no more. She could easily have died the same way at a 10 year-old's birthday party.
I would suggest that the drugs and alcohol made people more suggestible. To some young people, they are the lure of "FUN!"
I have long argued that the Injury (of which the Libertarians make no notice) is that of inducing someone else to try it. It is the lure of "fun" which is the motivating factor to induce these people into trying it.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
GIThruster wrote:I obviously agree that drug use is one of the world's greatest evils, perhaps the single worst, far worse than war, disease and famine since it destroys the lives of multitudes and could so easily be avoided.
However, this bit with the helium can't be blamed on drugs. The kid was at a party where she played with a helium tank, and most people have no idea that this can be dangerous. This is a tragic accident--no more. She could easily have died the same way at a 10 year-old's birthday party.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
-
GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
call it what you will, but multitudes of people play with helium in this way with no thought that it can be dangerous. There is nothing in the piece that says the girl was using drugs, only that she'd had a couple drinks; and there's no reason to suppose she would not have done likewise without the drinks. Also, a complaint by an interested party whom might like to sue over the issue, is hardly evidence the girl didn't want to play with the helium. There's just no evidence here of drugs at work, IMHO.Diogenes wrote:GIThruster wrote:I obviously agree that drug use is one of the world's greatest evils, perhaps the single worst, far worse than war, disease and famine since it destroys the lives of multitudes and could so easily be avoided.
However, this bit with the helium can't be blamed on drugs. The kid was at a party where she played with a helium tank, and most people have no idea that this can be dangerous. This is a tragic accident--no more. She could easily have died the same way at a 10 year-old's birthday party.
I would suggest that the drugs and alcohol made people more suggestible. To some young people, they are the lure of "FUN!"
I have long argued that the Injury (of which the Libertarians make no notice) is that of inducing someone else to try it. It is the lure of "fun" which is the motivating factor to induce these people into trying it.
Why settle for a shabby example of drugs supposedly ruining someone's life when each day hundreds of thousands of people demonstrate this fact of life? from Mexico to Somalia, Philadelphia to DC, the world is full of people who's lives have been devastated by drugs. No reason to blame drugs for an accident based upon what is normally harmless fun.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
GIT,
I think the connection here is that the girl entered into an environment where poor judgement was king. And this loss of judgment was fueled by drugs and drink. This is the issue at the core of it all for me. A loss of free will by those who consume putting others at risk.
She may not have been on drugs, but she did drink, and those around her were drinking and doing drugs. She was not going to get any help at all, and more than likely those around her encouraged her actions.
So, does one assign blame and guilt to the person that encourages another to jump of a bridge because it will be fun, funny, and cool, only to see the jumper get killed? Does one assign more blame if the good idea fairy was further encouraged or not questioned due to loss of cognitive function by drinking and/or drug use?
I think yes.
I think that if you are going to reduce your cognitive function, you are required to do so in an environment with controls that prevent you from hurting others or by encouraging them to hurt themselves.
Was the Girl stupid? Yes. Did she get into something she shouldn't have? Yes. Did others there have the reasoning ability to either not encourage her, or stop her from doing harm to herself? More than likely, no.
it is entirely plausible that they did not give a crap at the moment, nor did they think about "whats next".
These are "people that live in the past tense".
She was one of them, and the ones that are sober today are thinking, as usual, in the past tense. At the party it was probably, "that was cool last time". After the party is was, "that was not cool". At the next party, more than half are going to be thinking, "that was cool, watch this. Hey Jimmy, check out the Helium tank!"
I think the connection here is that the girl entered into an environment where poor judgement was king. And this loss of judgment was fueled by drugs and drink. This is the issue at the core of it all for me. A loss of free will by those who consume putting others at risk.
She may not have been on drugs, but she did drink, and those around her were drinking and doing drugs. She was not going to get any help at all, and more than likely those around her encouraged her actions.
So, does one assign blame and guilt to the person that encourages another to jump of a bridge because it will be fun, funny, and cool, only to see the jumper get killed? Does one assign more blame if the good idea fairy was further encouraged or not questioned due to loss of cognitive function by drinking and/or drug use?
I think yes.
I think that if you are going to reduce your cognitive function, you are required to do so in an environment with controls that prevent you from hurting others or by encouraging them to hurt themselves.
Was the Girl stupid? Yes. Did she get into something she shouldn't have? Yes. Did others there have the reasoning ability to either not encourage her, or stop her from doing harm to herself? More than likely, no.
it is entirely plausible that they did not give a crap at the moment, nor did they think about "whats next".
These are "people that live in the past tense".
She was one of them, and the ones that are sober today are thinking, as usual, in the past tense. At the party it was probably, "that was cool last time". After the party is was, "that was not cool". At the next party, more than half are going to be thinking, "that was cool, watch this. Hey Jimmy, check out the Helium tank!"
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)